You should try and pull the Dynaudio 52SE further away from the back and side walls as noted above. Listen to this for at least 2-3 weeks and see if this improves.
Keep a log any time you walk your Dynaudio 52SE around the room.
If you have tried everything, apparently the weakest link here is your Dynaudio 52SE.
Your Rotel amp and preamp are good but they probably have better chemistry with B & W speakers than with Dynaudio speakers.
They were owned by the same investor (B & W, Rotel, and Classe) I heard that B & W used Classe and Rotel amps to test their B & W 805 series.
I talked to 2 local Rotel dealers and they both suggested me B & W speakers if I currently own a Rotel amp and that Dynaudio may not be a good match up for Rotel.
I have listened to B & W stand mount monitors before and they match very, very, very well with Rotel gears, especially the B & W 602S3 series and the B & W 805 series. They simply sing well together.
But I find that Dynaudio sounds better to my personal taste and I built my GF's setup around her Dynaudio speakers.
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My solution to compromised listening room design is to sell my house and build another one!
While tuning your room, speaker and listening positions are very cost effective (and just plain effective) tweaks, you can probably get greater subtlety, detail and PRAT out of your Dynaudios with the integrated amps you suggest. In the range from $3000 to $5000 new you would have to pay for reasonably powerful Classe, McIntosh or Krell amps (although see the new Krell s-300i at $2500), I might suggest looking at these other amps too/first:
-LSA Standard
-Naim Supernait (don't be fooled by the lower power ratings)
-Pathos Logos
-Plinius 9200
If you could stretch to the $7K range new - look at these:
LSA Signature
Pass INT-150
Simaudio Moon i-7
Good Luck! |
It is a toss-up between the Rotel amps and the Dynaudio speakers.
07-03-09: Miner42
After a lengthy listen last night I really don't kow what I could do to improve - I was very pleased with results.
If that is the case I would suggest that you stay put and don't do anything. It is a vicious cycle as once you start to change one component in your system you would start looking at the next. Having said that, if you really have the urge of improving your system and want to get a little bit more out of it, I would suggest to go with your initial plan that is to go with a speaker upgrade. Although the Rotel amps may be mid-fi, a different speaker will yield a more significant impact in sound improvement compared to a change in amps. If looking at a different speaker, I would suggest getting one that has bigger drivers in comparison to your existing Dynaudio 52SE that your room can accomodate. Speakers with bigger drivers will always sound more full and coherent compared to equivalent speakers with smaller drivers. You only need to decide whether you would still want to stick back to the Dynaudio line or consider other brand of speakers. |
Yes, delayed for the most part until I can decide which path to take. I enjoy seperates but may contemplate a nice integrated - McIntosh, Classe', or Krell. I am currently reading Get Better Sound and am finding most of my problems may be the default setup I have - position of cabinet in relation to speakers, etc. My Dyns have really began to open up and am thinking, as suggested, replace the electronics. What a viscious merry-go-round this is. |
So Miner42, upgraditis delayed for now? I didn't pile on the Rotel-Basher Bandwagon because I really like the 1082/1092 combination. That kit is definitely not "Lo-Fi". I would think set up properly with decent wires this pair could make the Dyanaudio combination you are running sound very good.
Perhaps you have already done this, but I find using a test disk/record and a not-so-expensive digital sound meter from Radio Shack to integrate the roll-off for the sub and speakers yields a tremendous return on investment. Best forty bucks and two hours I ever spent on audio. |
Stricken,
My amp is beefy enough for the 52SEs. It is 500w/8ohm and 1000w/4ohm - more than the 52SE can handle.
I have tried repostioning my sub and it helped emminsely. My room is not the best either - 12W x 20L x 8H with wood floors and is open on one side of the 20L with 2 arches. After a lengthy listen last night I really don't kow what I could do to improve - I was very pleased with results. |
Stricken and Okocza,
I didn't mean for the "house sound" comment to be taken negatively, and maybe I used this term in error - its just that Dynaudios I have listened to - mostly Audience, Focus and Contour lines - have had a similar presentation and behavior when presented with a signal. I have noticed as others have mentioned here that they all like power, that they sound a little sterile at low volume when under powered and communicate pretty clearly how lower powered amps are laboring at higher volume. This honesty can get in the way of enjoyment that less precise or demanding speakers gloss over.
Given enough juice, the Dynaudio speakers I have heard sing and are uniquely capable of making the broadest range of material sound good. When somebody says for example "I like orchestral music, acoustic world music and rap(!), what speakers should I get", I suggest Dynaudios because of their "neutrality" and overall capability to reproduce all forms of recorded music well. I also personally love their design aesthetic, which can be an acquired taste for their more expensive speakers. Go up the line in price, and the "house sound" as I put it just gets more clear and nuanced, if your electronics can highlight what the speakers have to offer.
One additional note, I have heard the 52's (do not recall if they were SE or non-SE) connected to a PrimaLuna Prologue II (40 watts) and Rega P3, and the combination sounded fantastic at low to moderate volumes. Things got a little loose at higher volumes that rock or orchestral music might requre. On the other hand I listened to the Dynas with a Creek 5230SE, which has significantly more rated power in solid state, and a mid level Sim audio CD player and did not care for the combination at all and attribute it to a mis-match with the amp.
So from this I would take that quality tube power of 35 watts or more in a modest sized room may be fine for moderate listening levels with these speakers, but agree that as a general rule I would error on the side of higher quality sources and bigger and better amplification with Dynaudio products. |
You guys mention Dynaudio has a house sound, that cannot be more from the truth. Dynaudio speakers are some of the most nuetral speakers I have ever heard and in fact have no coloration or "house sound" as mentioned. Sounds to me like he needs bigger bal** behind the 52SE's, a bigger amp will wake up that 3 inch voice coil on the mid bass driver and give him what he needs. |
It's no way to upgrade path vd. 52SE in the new Dynaudio products line. Focus 140 and Contour S 1.4 are a different sound. Maybe try 1.3SE. |
Good post Knownothing !
Good luck . |
Miner42
What is it you don't like about/want to improve about the 52SE's? That would help us provide some advice on potential speakers. Dynaudios have a "house sound". Do you want more of that only better, or something completely different? |
Speakers should be on the long wall without the opening. A pair of Magnepan 1.6Qr's would move you into a higher realm...keep the Rotel stuff:O) |
The right spk. will make a world of difference. It sounds like you need a floorstander which falls on the warm side. If I had 2.5k to spend I'd look at Spendor and ProAc along w/a few others. I really like my older Rotel tuner (RT-850A) and CDP. (RCD-855) My not bring bragging rights but they are very musical pieces of equipment for a song. Try a different a spk. and see how things sound w/your Rotel. Good Luck! |
Rotel is mid-fi at best, IMO.Really more like entry level gear,nothing wrong with that.Its not where you start but where you end up. I would venture to say most have started with lower grade gear and worked up,thats the fun part of this hobby..Keep in mind 3-5 times the money doesnt produce 3-5 times the improvement,thats not how it works..If your "satisfied with what you have"then why the post???..I would agree, dump the Rotel.... |
I don't understand the Rotel hatred on this board. It may be mid-fi stuff but I have tried listening comparisons with Parasound, Classe, BAT, Mac and Krell - all 3-5X the cost of my Rotel gear. There was improvement but not to the tune of $8000+. I suppose I have reached a point in my life that I need to be satisfied with what I have. My room is 12' x 20' with an 80% opening on one of the 20' sides. |
I kind of agree with Riley804, the Rotel gear is not on the same level as the rest. I would be scoping out preamps, in your shoes. But given your listening preferences, floorstanders cold work better. Is your room large enough for full range speakers? |
This is what I would change :
Rotel RC-1082 pre
Rotel RB-1092 amp |
