Vibration Isolation

I've been promoting these for the past two months on a couple of threads here. Bought a box of them and they work great, sound great. Gave a few to audio buds and they concur improvement in sound of amplification components.

Audio bargain of the decade?

I'd say order some quick before they find out what we audiophiles sometimes pay for isolation products. 

Sadly only ships within the US, and not available in the UK.

I'm all set for vibration control for the system. I wish this company made a thick pad large enough to fit under my VPI record cleaning machine.

Frank

Go to your local HVAC supply house. They have them in larger sizes. And dirt cheap. 

I use those. (2X2 squares) Put under tube amp, streamer-dac, speakers and power conditioner. It's a no-brainer.
Larry

Anyone know the Durometer spec. on one of these?

cd318, have alook on eBay.
I saw one site that mails everywhere (Europe for you, Australia for me) for free from the US.

I use similar things under an isolation platform my phono stage sits on, it sits on Polycrystal cones, though.
Every piece of equipment I have sounds best in my system with different cones under it. Polycrystal is quite versatile.

These are what my local stereo sold me. At  $4/each. 
I use them along with a second tool. Walmart replacement
tire tubes. Size 12.5". Cost $4.50 ea.  That I have under the 
Oppo CD player. The retailer I mentioned that is here locally
uses it under his turntable. That failed for me however.

Why not try these stacked, where the lines are parallel, then at right angles.
Hear a difference?

For me, the best use is on top of electronics, IECs.
I use them inside my power amp, on the rail cross member near
the transformer.  Tame the micro vibrations, hear the difference.

Try these for yourself... what component(s) would you have to upgrade,
in order to achieve the same results, and at what cost?
My answer: these squares operate on a different level.
I am thinking the positive effects may be more apparent
on high quality components, for example, on the glass top
of my Powercell UEF 12 power conditioner!

I use these under my Edensound terrastone platforms ... they work and sound great, and are much better than the rubber/cork-filled squares.

About a year ago I purchased the blue and the natural cork color (different materials) from the same company that is in the opening post. They do work well, the company also offers a variety of sizes, for example, I have one that's 18" x 18" etc.
One word of caution seems like all of these types of isolation devices (rubber/cork/rubber) will leave black marks on your wooden platforms, that I have nor figured out how to remove.

It can be demonstrated fairly easily the best approach, generally speaking, to vibration isolation and resonance control is the deliberate and coordinated implementation of a combination of mass on spring type isolation and vibration damping for the top plate of the iso system. The art of isolation comes in when interfacing the component to the top plate and interfacing the iso system to the floor or rack, not to mention the choice of damping method and material for the top plate. This attack will address very low seismic vibration, acoustic vibration and “residual vibration” on the top plate that arises from several sources. If it was easy everyone could do it.

@lak   I believe that either "Goo Gone" or "Goof Off" should, with some elbow grease help you to get rid of the black marks.  

@hifiman5, thank you for the information. I'll give it a try :-)

I recently contacted Diversitech (email) and asked about the Durometer spec on the 2x2" EVA (blue center) pads. Hoping for a reply. FWIW - one of our senior members had recently opined that these will do nothing for audio as they are too hard. I am not voicing an opinion in that regard. I have both blue center EVA pads as well as the cork center pads. It would be helpful to know the Durometer value and relevant Shore scale as this will allow comparison to some products from Herbie’s Audio Lab (with which some of us are more familiar). If interested see also the chart at the link below.

https://www.smooth-on.com/page/durometer-shore-hardness-scale/

In my experience too much rubber of any sort under too many pieces of gear in one system can mess with timing (PRaT), darken the sound up too much and/or slow or loosen the bass too much. Took me a few years to work the rubber/cork/rubber out of my system and into Herbie’s Tenderfoots, then out of those and into an even mix of Daedalus Isolation Devices ( ball bearings incorporated with dissimilar materials) and Isoacoustics ISOpads (yes, some rubber implemented but mainly spring based), both in the right places.
I realize this may be in a completely different price bracket as the thread subject but just saying to be careful using too much thick rubber under your components. In my experience it can give a false sense of warmth and body that is actually screwing with the presentation of your music. In general possibly robbing the music of some of its life and breath. —Revealing/transparency level of your system will dictate this outcome...or not

@ianrodger, thanks for that. I think it's time I looked outside just the UK sites.

I have found isolation works well under loudspeakers, especially those that might suffer from a boomy bass. My Tannoys took a step or two towards neutrality when provided with a measure of isolation. They have a lovely full warm mid bass, but previously it could be too much of a good thing with certain recordings.

Ultimately when it comes to isolation I find myself agreeing with geoffkait (shock horror!) in that springs are probably best. However because of practicality and cost these anti vibration pads are a great alternative.

It's also reassuring to see certain speaker manufacturers such as JBL now starting to offer isolating feet and or instead of the ubiquitous spikes.

Furthermore, isolation blocks under monitoring/mixing speakers are also becoming more common in pro use. 

Anyone tried exotic wood cones ?

Based on information supplied by Diversitech personnel, materials used to construct EVA MP2E anti-vibration pads have hardnesses roughly comparable to Tenderfeet from Herbie’s Audio Lab.

Hardness specs for Diversitech’s EVA MP2E 2”x2” anti-vibration pads are as follows:
The black rubber component has a Shore A scale rating of 55 +/-7.
The blue foam layer has an ASKER C rating of 70 +/- 7 [as defined by SRIS 0101 (Standard by the Society of Rubber Industry, Japan)].

Durometer values for various Herbie’s Audio Lab (HLA) components are listed on the site’s Component Isolation “home” page (see link) and are based on the Shore A scale. Values are:

Tender Soft Tenderfoot 46
Extra-Firm Tenderfoot 50
Soft Fat Dot 28
Big Fat Dot 70

Since its hardness rating is based on the Shore A scale, the EVA black rubber can be directly compared to HLA products. The black rubber component of the EVA pad has a Durometer value somewhat greater (i.e., indicating it is harder) than Herbie’s Extra-Firm Tenderfoot (i.e., Shore A 55 +/-7 or 48-62 ~/> EFT 50).

The hardness rating of the blue foam material is more difficult to compare directly to HLA products since it is based on something other than the Shore A scale. Using information from the Rubber Properties pdf found at the misumi-ec link below (see section labeled “Hardness images”), an ASKER C rating of 70 corresponds to a Shore A value of around 45 (ASKER C of 70 falls approximately midway between Shore A values of 40 and 50). Consequently, the blue middle layer of an EVA pad has a hardness roughly comparable to that of a Tender Soft Tenderfoot from HAL (Shore A 45 ~ 46).

https://us.misumi-ec.com/pdf/fa/2010/p2121.pdf
https://herbiesaudiolab.com/collections/component-isolation

Any mass-on-spring system works both for vibrations going up to the component or speaker and those going down. What I had in mind is another layer of resonance control that addresses the “residual vibration” on the top plate of an iso platform, e.g., motor vibration, acoustic wave vibration, what gets through from the floor. There will always be residual vibration because the mass-on-spring iso system acts as a low pass filter, so some relatively high percentage of *very low frequencies* gets through to the component or speaker, depending on Fr. Speaker vibration frequencies don’t extend nearly as low as seismic frequencies, maybe only as low as 30 Hz, so in terms of mechanical feedback speaker isolators work very well, indeed, close to 100%.

+1, been using these for about a year with good results. 

I am perfectly happy with the result: my 2 speakers, and dac and the amplifier are on the same desk...I put each one on one sandwiche constituted by pieces of sorbothane duro 70+Bamboo+ cork plates+granite plate +sorbothane+ another granite plate+quartz pieces... on top of speakers 60 pounds of stones.... Almost perfect isolation to my ears...

Nice set-up. That will do til something better comes along. 😛

Thanks...Sure there is better I dont doubt that...But i like designing myself more than buying if possible and if I am able to do it for sure...

Further information from Diversitech product support staff...

For EVA MP2E pads (i.e., black corrugated rubber sandwiching a blue foam core), performance is maximized when statically loaded to around 345 kPa. Vibration will not be as effectively absorbed when loads are less than this value.

According to Unitconverters.net, 1 kPa is equivalent to 0.145 psi, so 345 kPa is ~50 psi. A 4 square inch (2"x2") MP2E pad therefore requires loading with 200 pounds for best performance.
https://www.unitconverters.net/pressure/kpa-to-psi.htm

Product specs supplied by Diversitech personnel are valid as of the date of the posts in which they are reported but going forward are subject to change.

By my calculation 800 pounds would be required to optimally load 4 pads, assuming the calculations in the previous post are correct. 

Agreed. Use of 3 pads and only partial placement (e.g., 1/3 - 1/4) of a pad under the equipment will help move things in the right direction when used with gear that isn’t super heavy. Even so, the optimum load for 3 pads each placed only 1/3 of the way under a piece would be 200#.

Has anyone tried cutting in half? Presumably less material means less load support?

Yes, use a circular saw, carefully, to resist the "pulling"
of the rubber.  Use tongs, or a vise, to save your fingers.

The results?  Spectacular.  Now you'll have to re-evaluate:
in any given application, which sounds better, a half
square or a whole square?

Nice problem to have.