Why do Harbeth speakers have such a cult following

The honest answer? Because Stereophile put them class A about 2-3 years ago. They blew up after that.

Harbeth's website describes their sound as "fresh'' and "natural'' which I think are very accurate adjectives.

To my ears the sound is also warm and relaxing, which should appeal to fans of most genres of music (except heavy metal/rap).

Other than sound quality I also think the appeal is that they do work well with a wide variety of amps - I recently listened to the Compact 7s driven by a modest setup costing about US$2k and the sound was captivating. The dealer actually emphasized the point to the several customers present that you don't need "crazy money'' to enjoy a Harbeth.

11-13-12: Bobheinatz
I owned the 5's and it always was enjoyable. It drew you into the music. Someday I will own a Harbeth again.

I also owned the 5's for a short time and Bob's comments sum up my feelings as well. It took me a few days to settle in with them, but after I did I enjoyed a lot of music.

Ditto Bobheinatz & Briangrarcom.

I am using a pair of P3ESR at the moment and they are great. Can't think of a better small speaker, fills the room perfectly, big sound, enough bass, punchy, with great balance and every record I play sound good, I don't know how it's possible, but it is what I hear! Easy to drive as well, and I can play very loud. In my opinion, in my room with my tube amp.

"The dealer actually emphasized the point to the several customers present that you don't need "crazy money'' to enjoy a Harbeth"

Perhaps but $2K price disparity between retail of new 30.1 in UK vs US seems crazy to me, but that's another can of worms isn't it?

Yes, but you get that with everything that comes from outside the U.S. You could say the same for Revel, Sonus Faber and so on.

Hello Egoben,

Although I have interest in the Harbeth line of speakers, I have not yet had the opportunity to have heard the P3ESR's in person and have a few questions for you if you do not mind.

In regards to your post; ".....fills the room perfectly, big sound, enough bass, punchy, with great balance....." I like how small mini monitors can seem to "disappear" imaging wise, but due to their small size, they often seem to miniaturize the size of instruments, if you will. Like toy violins, cellos and toy pianos, etc. Do you feel the sense of the instrument's scale is lost at all with such a tiny speaker as the P3ESR?

Also, you mentioned that they are easy to drive with your tube amp. I'm a tube lover as well and am curious which tube amp you are using with your P3ESR's?

What size room are you playing these in and how close are you able to place them to the wall that is behind the speaker without suffering any sound degradation?

Thank you for your help!

Harbeth designs their speakers using a method that was very common in the 1950's and 60's which was pioneered by AR, KLH and Advent. They adjust the wood cabinet to have a direct effect on the drivers to create a sonic character that some would consider colored or laid back. Sony does the same thing with their flagship SS-AR1. Most speaker companies today isolate the drivers as much as possible from the cabinet to create a more open, neutral sound stage. Many older Audiophiles prefer Harbeth since it reminds them of the sonic character of the best speakers from the era of true analog before the rise of digital.

There a bit of truth and a lot of BS in what you say, Audiozen. But mostly it's just an unfair misrepresentation of Harbeth and its fans.

01-17-13: Audiozen
Harbeth designs their speakers using a method that was very common in the 1950's and 60's which was pioneered by AR, KLH and Advent. They adjust the wood cabinet to have a direct effect on the drivers to create a sonic character that some would consider colored or laid back.

Harbeth speakers trace their lineage back to the monitor designs developed by the BBC research department - for which Harbeth's founder, Dudley Harwood, worked as an engineer.
Many of the documents associated with those early BBC speaker designs are freely available on the web. You won't find any references to "adjusting the wood cabinet to have a direct effect on the drivers to create a sonic character that some would consider colored or laid back". That is complete BS you've made up.

The BBC research department assignment (for loudspeakers) was to design accurate, low coloration monitors for broadcast use. What you will find in those documents is how the speakers where evaluated with live music and voice to judge accuracy. This is something that I believe still forms the basis for Alan Shaw's current Harbeth designs.

Now I'm not saying that those early designs, nor even the current Harbeth designs, were/are completely successful (is any loudspeaker?). However it is very wrong to assert that Harbeth speakers are voiced to achieve a particular sonic coloration. They are designed primarily for accuracy and low coloration, so that the studio technician in the control room will hear an accurate representation of the sound being produced in the live studio.

If anyone is interested, there is a thread on the Harbeth forums where designer Alan Shaw explains the origin and reasons behind the BBC thin-wall cabinet design.

http://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/showthread.php?351-BBC-style-thin-wall-cabinets-Why-so-special

Simple,because they sound so good! I had many speakers over the years and these p3esr's are special. But it's all a matter of taste.

Drubin..you are way off target.." unfair misrepresentation of Harbeth and its fans?" How silly. What I described is absolutely correct and I highly praise Harbeth for the way they cut their cabinets to interact with the drivers and the sonic character they produce. I wish to hell that speaker companies would return to the more traditional design methods from the 60's that Harbeth adhere's to.
The best sounding speakers I ever heard were from that era. There is an organic rightness when the cabinets integrate with the drivers. Seductive. Castle speakers also use the same method with their cabinets and drivers. Certain KLH model's from the mid sixtie's with their electrostatic tweeter's and the driver integration with the cabinet were the best sounding speakers Henry Kloss ever designed. They were superior to his large Advents.

But it's all a matter of taste

yes,but there is one but---matter of taste has one particular feature,it likes fluctuate.I can listen harbeth for 3 weeks everyday with diffrent stereo sets,but sometimes I can listen other speakers(dynaudio) for 2 weeks or 1 month,that means that harbeth will rest for some time. The same thing applies to amps,cd players or dacs,even wires

To No_regrets,

Sorry for not replying sooner. I've been busy listening to music. :-) Sesiously, of course I can give you some answers. You are asking if the instruments are reproduced like "toy instruments" with the small Harbeth P3ESR speakers. When you look at the speakers, and even hold them in your hands, you might cerntainly think that's exactly what will happen. Of course they can't play as physically as a 15 inch bass guitar amplifer next to you, that just won't happen. But I've never ever been thinking that any instrument sounds like a toy instrument, or thin, or whatever term used. I have tried big floor standers in my room that "rocks" a lot more, but in the end, I prefer a more modest presentation of the music, that doesn't make the walls shake, but that's me. But as I wrote, it's still a very big sounding speaker, and that's not only for its tiny size. When I shut my eyes, I can imagine a lot bigger speakers in front of me!

My room is quite small, 16 sqm. I have previously used Dynaudio Focus 160 and they are too boomy in my room. In a bigger room, they are an amazing speaker, and share many things with the Harbeth's. The most important is that you can listen to music all day long without any kind of listening fatigue. I like that a lot! The Harbeth's can be placed much closer to the walls than any other speaker I have tried. Just a few cm will do actually. But more space than that is of course prefered. They aren't rear ported like many other speakers, incl the Dynadio's that require 50 cm or more.

Yes, I am using a tube amp, it's a 30 watt Jadis, class a. I have also been using a 2x165 watt solid state amp (Bladelius Thor mk2) with these speakers and the sound is actually pretty similar! With other speakers that are harder to drive, the difference would have been a lot bigger. I have read many times that some people use much less than 30 watts for the small Harbeth P3's with good result, and I don't doubt it at all.

These P3ESR's are just on loan actually, but I would have wanted to own them a lot. Instead, I will purchase the new bigger model 30.1. They are much harder to drive in my opinion and my amp will struggle a bit, and on some music they will be a bit too much in my room, but I liked them so much I couldn't resist. They reproduce vocals and guitars even better than the small P3's. But hopefully, I might own a pair of these small lovely speakers aswell, because I know I will miss them when I return them. They are that good!

Thank you Egoben! Your post was very informative and very helpful to me. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with me on this. I've read many positive things in regards to the new 30.1....I'm sure you will love it!

Egoben,Ditto on your desription on the P3ESR'S. I think you should think twice about going for the larger Harbeth. The simple two way sealed design is what makes them special. Bigger is not always better.

Yogiboy,

There is some truth to what you say....." I think you should think twice about going for the larger Harbeth......... Bigger is not always better. "

This reminds me of back when I was purchasing my reference speakers, Dunlavy SCIV Signatures. In the dealer's large showroom, I was able to compare my SCIV's with the larger SCV's. They both had the same sonic signatures, but the larger SCV's were that much better in every respect.

I then actually talked in great length with John Dunlavy, the designer of these speakers and he said that because of the size of MY listening room, the smaller SCIV's would outplay the larger SCV's. Although the SCV's are technically the better speaker, they were just too big for my room to handle properly. So it is of paramount importance to match your speakers to the room that they will be playing in.

I'm sure that Egoben has taken his room into consideration and feels the sonic gains that he will achieve with the larger 30.1's in the majority of his music replay will far outweigh what it may lack in the select few of his recordings.

Your point is very well worth considering though, as many probably forget the important role that your listening room plays in sound reproduction.

To Yogiboy and No_regrets,

I know what you mean and I am very well aware of that a smaller and cheaper speaker model sometimes is better than a bigger one! It depends on the room and the electronics, among other things. In fact, each new speaker model I get, tend to be smaller and smaller each time, both physcially and concerning deep bass. I have listenened to both the small Harbeth P3ESR and the 30.1 in my home with my electronics. I like both speakers and would like to own both. Even though the 30.1 has an 8" woofer, it doesn't go lower than my previous Dynaudio speakers with a smaller woofer than that. Which is a good thing in my room. I don't want too deep bass. First, I don't like it, and my small (16sqm) room tend to create boominess, and secondly, my neighbours won't like it either and I like to play music late at night.

My taste in music is of course also another factor why I like Harbeth so much. I don't know how but for some reason, most older music sounds better than most new music. It might be the modern mastering (loudness war), of course, but that can't be the only reason. I don't know. For example, I played "Silver & Gold" by Neil Young released in the year 2000. Sounds great, a great record (if you like Neil Young like I do)! A little later, I played his record "Comes A Time", released 1978, and you can really hear what a difference it is. It's so much better soundwise, more natural, more real, every instrument and the vocals, are just perfect, like it was played and recorded in my room! Before that, I played Miles Davis' classic "Kind of Blue", and, well, it is really something! I haven't heard these records sound as good and natural before with any other speaker I have listenened to. And for me, that's what it's all about.

(If anyone's interested in listening to the small Harbeth P3ESR speakers (or any other model I guess), just have in mind that they sound much better put on stands, than on a shelf or bench or something. I first listened to them without proper stands, and I wasn't half as satisfied with the sound as with stands.)

I just wanted to add my thoughts on Harbeth because they are a perplexing speaker for me. I have a set of SHL5 and they are unlike anything else in my experience. I've heard Harbeth described as warm, colored, recessed highs, non-hifi, that the cabinets add resonance. In my case, non of these descriptors is true. Once I got them locked in position, they are some of the most amazing beasts. The center image is spooky - it shimmers and hangs in the air. The center image doesn't ask to be taken seriously, it is right there like a brilliant diamond. In my small listening room 11x13, the bass is not too powerful but it is deep and rich. I use an Exposure 2010S2.

Regarding the tonality, I find the Harbeths cool and on the brighter side. My favorite music through them is rock and rap. I also like jazz but I turn to the Harbeths for harder music. They have an amazing way of allowing you to hear every word of the singer/rapper while no minimizing the rest of the music - to vocals are in the music, not apart from it.

Strangely, I thought I would LOVE vinyl and classical through the SHL5s but I am not drawn to them. The Harbeths are my rock/rap/heavy music speakers. Go figure!

I hope I didn't step on any toes - these are just my own thoughts and I may have expressed so basics incorrectly.

Regards, Michael

Hello Egoben,

You are very fortunate that you were able to audition both sets of Harbeths in your room. I would love to be able to that.

I appreciate your tip in regards to using dedicated speaker stands instead of a shelf, bench, etc.

Have you found a particular brand or style that seems to work well for you? Did you use the same type for both the P3ESR and 30.1?

Hello Michaelkingdom,

I enjoyed reading your thoughts in regards to your SHL5's. I believe that the sound of any speaker is greatly influenced by the room that they are playing in as the room becomes an extension of the speaker's cabinet.

So every room has varying nodes, reflective surfaces, as well as absorbing surfaces, etc. I think that this may be one reason some feel a particular speaker may sound warm and laid back and others may feel the same speaker may sound cold or lean or more upfront. So many variables in this hobby!

No_regrets, I didn't use the same stands for both speakers. For the 30.1's I used heavy stands, I think they are called Atacama SE24. For the small P3's I use a much lighter stand made of MDF wood, they are called Audio Pro Stand 620. The only reason why I use these are because of the looks, I like these a lot, the Atacama's are very good but ugly in my opinion. I prefer heavy stands though, as we have two cats running around. Sometimes I put something heavy on the bottom plates just to not risk any accidents caused by the 4-legged little beasts. I once thought heavier stands made the bass a little bit more clear but I'm not sure at all about that. Apart from the overall better sound, I also prefer stands because it lets me have the speakers far from each other, it widens the soundstage very much.

Thanks Egoben. I don't know that either of those would be available here in the States. I've many people seem to like Skylan stands with the Harbeth line of speakers quite a bit. They are in Canada and would be no problem for me to get those. I probably will give them a try or maybe custom build some out of wood myself. We'll have to see how ambitious I get!

Thanks Egoben. I don't know that either of those would be available here in the States. I've many people seem to like Skylan stands with the Harbeth line of speakers quite a bit. They are in Canada and would be no problem for me to get those. I probably will give them a try or maybe custom build some out of wood myself. We'll have to see how ambitious I get!

Everything has a cult following, why would Harbeth be any different?

What I don't get is why it bothers other people so much.

Why does Naim have a cult around it? Why does BMW? Why do the Dallas Cowboys? I just don't know why people get so worked up about it.

I recently got a pair of P3-ESRs and I think they are definitely among the most well judged little speakers I've listened to. I'm not about to don robes of Harbeth grill cloth or tattoo Alan Shaw on my arm or anything, but I can easily understand why Harbeth has its adherents. They communicate music well.

Anyone else find them to be colored in an unpleasant plastic way?

I like their comfortable sound, buy they don't sound un-colored as they advertise...

Doesn't sound like a class A gear to me, imho.

I would be most interested in what others think of this, since their is a pair for sale for $1350, and my friend is about to buy them...

Exactly how does a real violin or a real piano sound? I hear similar comments often when discussing hi fi gear (hell, I've made them myself) as if there is some static reference sound emitted from live musical instruments. I have a friend who has a nice baby grand piano. This piano resided for years in a relatively small carpeted room. After she moved, the piano now resides in a much larger room with hardwood floors and a higher ceiling. It sounds like a different piano. I venture to say that a violin will sound different when played on a concert stage vs an open air arena. For that matter, the same violin will sound different when played by two different violinists. My point is that suggesting that a loudspeaker has a more natural timbre than some other loudspeaker is, in itself, flawed.

Because they don't have a bright tweeter, don't have grainy midrange, don't have "ear grating" types of distortion. Most high end speakers hurt the ears of many sensitive listeners who are bothered by rough/harsh/bright distortions. Most Harbeths have subtractive faults which don't hurt that type of listener's ears. If anything they are missing detial, missing extension, which does not typically hurt ears.

I don't own Harbeths, never did, never had any sort of business with them in any way. But I know what I have heard from most Harbeths, and have had many occasions to hear them.

Danoro said: "My point is that suggesting that a loudspeaker has a more natural timbre than some other loudspeaker is, in itself, flawed."

I will answer back, not directly pertaining to Harbeths versus most high end speakers, but simply a statement of most high end speakers: Since most speakers directed toward the high end industry have too much high frequency energy (a come-on to the listener in a showroom) and/or way too much distortion from 1k on up, it is entirely possible that the speaker that seems to have a more natural timbre very well could be a less distorted speaker. Certainly, a speaker that has a "more natural timbre" should not be dismissed simply due to that aspect of its sound!

Kiddman

I just bought the 30 model for $1400 including stands for my friend. I hope he likes them.

They are comfortable to listen to for hours on, without listening fatigue.

They seem to do classical music well.

I am excited about them.

all speaker has it's own characters. I owned HL5S and it has it's own sound being un-amplified and natural but also lacks dynamic punch and doesn't go very low. They are easy to listen to and very musical with all kinds of musics, I toe tapped with everything I played but I missed a bit of excitement. Great musical speakers and not audiophile speakers.

dynamic punch can be achieved using punchy amp and source(dac) and copper interconnects modified with mundorf solder which contains silver gold etc.In my case Krell amp and bryston dac and Musical fidelity vlink192 does this trick

Luna said: "missed a bit of excitement". That indeed can be one of the tradeoffs of Harbeths.....a bit of softening of detail, a loss of peering way into the recording, so they can indeed sound a litle on the dull side. Not slamming the speakers, I welcome their contrast to the more common overhyped, bright, harsh, glarey high end offerings that can ruin the musical experience.

Considering introducing my Prima Luna family to Harbeth.  My older 1.5 Thiels loved the match.

Harbeths are friendly to amps,especially to tube amps.With tube amps midrange become even better

IMHO, speaker sound is very much a personal preference. I've owned many brands of speakers over the 40 year period I've been a hifi addict. I still have fond memories of my first speakers, KLH 6s. Now that I find myself in a small apartment, the Harbeth 7ES-3s sound excellent in my bedroom. I especially like the fact that room placement isn't a major issue. While I listen mostly to jazz, I occasionally play rock. My Harbeth's make any kind of music sound great. With a good recording, they will sometimes put out low frequencies with such power and realism that it's scary. I agree with the person who said that they do better with gobs of power. I think that class A equipment would be ideal but it's expensive, gets hot, and will eat power. (I know some of the new class A amps have circuits that reduce heat and power consumption without  intermodulation distortion, but they're out of my price range.)

If anyone knows of speaker wires that compliment Harbeths, would you be kind enough to let me know?

I have used Audioquest Rockefeller speaker cables for 4 or 5 years now. I just switched from C7es3's to SHL Plus as of 5 days ago and they're still a match made in heaven for Harbeth's. 

I've used Acoustic Zen cables (Double Barrel Shotgun and Absolute) with Harbeth SHl5+, feel like they are both a great match. 

If you were forced to eat bangers and mash, you'd like Harbeths too

Obviously you've never eaten bangers and mash. There's never been a forced eating on record. Too delicious.

Have a pair of SLH5 plus for about a month now - and they are quite special.  But I always was drawn to British speakers.  They just seem to have a character that draws me in to the music.

Harbeth does that as good as if not better than most.  Have also had Proac, and Spendor in my home for many years.

Compared to USA, and Danish brands they just seem to warm my innards.  Kind of like bangers and mash.

I hope some of you can upgrade to Coquille St. Jacques  

I always enjoy a little Bubble ’n Squeak with my Harbeths...

This question was asked five years ago and I it as pertinent today as it was then. There a lots of great speakers that don't have the following as Harbeth. My guess would a combination of factors such as neutral sound, half decent cabinetry, Stereophile reviews and the British mystique. I got sucked in. I wanted to upgrade my PSER3's and it was easier to go back to where I purchased them and listen to something in the same family. I now own the 30.1's but it took 4 amps to get the sound I wanted. Started with NAD M2, Arcam, Moon and now LFD NFSE Mk II. Without the latest amp, I would have sold these speakers. 

Bozak did Harberth better back in the 60's!  Time to move on...unless your talking 60's pricing.  

As speaker cables for my Super HL5+ I am now using Duelund DCA16GA tinned-copper tone wire that I read about on Jeff Day's website. I replaced a pair of Audioquest Castle Rock with them. To me they strike the right balance with the Harbeth's but YMMV. I have also used Cardas Golden Reference. All three of these speaker cables work well with the Harbeth's IMHO, I just prefer the Dueland.

My Resonant Woods stands are in and I'm picking them up tomorrow afternoon. I can't wait to hear the difference with the open bottom stands. I use Skylan stands with my C7's for years and now the only stands I've heard my new SHL5 Plus's on are also closed bottom. I'm thinking the sound will be noticeably different, for better or for worse. Crossing my fingers.

well I found very nice sinergy between harbeth shl5 and synthesis roma 37dc+ amp

Started with NAD M2, Arcam, Moon and now LFD NFSE Mk II. Without the latest amp, I would have sold these speakers.