I'm confused

Large/Small: A "Large" speaker is one which receives a full range of sound, 32Hz to 20Khz basically. A "Small" speaker setting is one in which the pre amp/processor routes the low frequencies, say 80Hz and below to the subwoofer. This is a ball park guesestimate, others please correct if totally off base, but I think the vast majority of the receivers available power(75%) is used to create the low frequencies, ~80Hz and below.

With your setup I see a few problems. One, you have a subwoofer, let it do it's job with the low frequencies. Two, your receiver is simply not capable of creating these low frequencies at the volume level you desire. Also creating these frequencies from both your subwoofer and main speakers does really weird/bad things. What can happen is the two can cancel each other out. So all this hard works ends up being canceled out by the time the sound reaches your ear.

Think of it this way, your subwoofer has a built in amplifier just to these low frequencies(150watt) and your are also trying to do these plus everything else with it's built in 90 watt amplifier, 5 times over. NOTE:You subwoofer will have it's limits, I guessing these limits will be below your desires(next thread..:).

Power coordinators-I'm all for power conditioners. Given this situation I would advise you forget about this and focus on the core components. Amps/subs/speakers/processors. If the power at your wall is fairly clean, power conditioners will have a much lesser effect. How do we know if the power is clean/dirty...still have not figured this one out. Did a thread on this and was left thinking I should just call NASA. IT all comes down to trail and error with power conditioners.

If your serious about working on the power issue I strongly suggest installing/having installed a dedicated line or two. Dollar for dollar I have yet to find a tweak that improved my personal system as much. Some people can hear grass grow, I can't. I heard a big improvement when I did this one. Plus the cost can be far less than most power conditioners. Don't be afraid to try your system with out any power conditioners, you might be surprised.

Separates: I think most people can hear a large improvement. Just an opinion. Plus you can upgrade only the component(processor/amp) you desire instead of being forced to upgrade both at once. It's funny, if you look into your receiver you will see a big transformer, big heavy metal thingy plus all the other circuitry. In a stand alone amp, that is all thats in the box, and it takes up the whole box.

Outlaw: I have never heard this gear. No clue, everybody seems to give high praise here on the web about this gear. I think they have a return policy, I assume your stuck paying to ship it at least one direction if not two.

8 ohms=good for receiver.

Marty

Marty, the 80Hz LFE setting you mention IS actually quite standard. Although many processors and AVRs these days have bass management systems that allow adjustability of this frequency, 80HZ seems to be the THX standard [for whatever that's worth], heheh. My old Marantz AV550's LFE however is stuck only at 100Hz, but it works fine for me.

About five years ago when Outlaw came out with its first amp it was rumored that it was an OEM ATI AT1505 exactly like the one I own. The casing and most of the innards were nearly identical, but the price was considerably lower. Since then, and I haven't really kept close tabs, they have released AV procesors and receivers, but I can't vouch for their quality. However, they seem to offer good products at a good value.

Lej1447, as a whole I feel that getting more amp than you need is better than not having enough, and this is especially true for 5.1 encoded movies and their big bang effect tracks. I use dinky NHT mini monitors that are anywhere from five to eight years old being driven by 150 watts to each channel and have never had a problem with lack of dynamics, clipping or being overdriven. Having a lot of clean power on tap reduces the tendency of the amp going into clipping possibly like your Denon is with the AR 8.3s. Setting your speakers to small will help in this direction.

Lej1447, here is a simple experiment. Unplug the Denon receiver from the power strip, and plug it directly into the wall. See if you notice a difference in the capability of reproducing dynamic passages.

Let us know of your results.

Guys, thank you very much. I have a heading direction. Glad that I came here to seek your expertise for valuable advice.

Marty9876 and Gunbei, I will experiment with "small speaker" setting on my AVR as I dump more load onto the subwoofer.

Buscis2, I will try your suggested experiment before I toss out my Monster Powerbar and head out for a power conditioner.

Sean and Cytocycle, I love your ideas, i.e. getting a multi-channel amp, and still working on it. By experimenting the setting on gears per recommendations of other Audigon members, I will definitely have more time to wait for a good pre-owned multi-channel amp to show up. Once I have a good amp, hopefully, I can change the setting to "large speakers" on AVR in order to experience the full frequency, which the Phantom speakers offer.

I'm not confused any more!!!!!!

Gentleman, let's put opinions aside and evaluate based on facts and raw numbers. Lej1447 is presently using a 15 amp non-dedicated circuit as a power source for a plasma tv, a 5x90 HT receiver, a 150 watt sub, and any other input sources. On it's best day, that receptacle is capable of providing 1600 watts of AC current. That is assuming he has a solid 120v/60cy waveform with no deviation.

In terms of wattage to SPL ratio, 1 watt is providing 89db of SPL. Let us use the gradient scale for increased SPL output. In order to increase SPL by 3db, we would need to double the power. So, 2 watts would provide 92db, 4 watts/95db, 8 watts/98db, 16 watts/101db, 32 watts/104db, 64 watts/107db and based on present calculations, 128 watts/110db.

I am sure that most of us realize how loud 107db of SPL is, in a 12'x13' room. Most gunshots in Dolby Digital or DTS format are mixed to provide 103db. So this would give a fair indication of how loud 107db actually is.

The output wattage of most amplifiers is rated at 120 volts. If the receptacle is only providing say, 117 volts, current in watts would drop to 1350 watts.

Now, a plasma tv can use as much as 500 watts of AC. A 150 watt sub, considering high dynamic passages, could demand up to 600 watts of power. The HT amplifier based on a 90 watt output per channel would use a minimum of 450 watts, and that is not even considering power loss for operation efficiency. Let us not even consider the source components being used.

We have just used 1550 watts of AC power.

Now we are recommending another 3 channel amplifier?

Treat me like I'm an idiot. Where is the AC power coming from, to operate this additional amplifier?

(I'll give you a clue), IT AIN'T THERE. Are we now worsening an existing problem by adding ANOTHER amplifier and not seeing the forest from the trees?

My opinion regarding power conditioning precludes AC filtration. That is not my primary concern. AC current capability, current limiting, and AC instability is my primary concern.

I think we are fixing the blame, not the problem. I have this funny feeling that if this little HT receiver had a STABLE AC power source, such as Marty suggests, a dedicated 20 amp receptacle or as I suggest a power regenerator/stabilizer, he might have a problem resolved. This is even considering a "mid fi" HT receiver with it's questionable power supplies.

A tree needs water to grow. An amplifier needs AC power to amplify. Let's not ignore the most basic of operating principals.

With all due respect, my opinion still stands. Provide the AC power required for this amplifier to operate PROPERLY, and the listening results may be quite different.