Why "Cryo" anything?

Eldartford,

As the poster child for the type of behavior I take issue with it doesn't surprise me that you ask this question. If you don't get it then there's no use trying to explain. You must be very lonely.

As with most things in life, perception is reality.

Ok. I am baited into posting with another answer. Since I started, I might as well finish it.

Cello,
I believe this is a "tech talk" forum. I thought this is the place to discuss about the science/technology behind the product. I was looking for a reasonable theory for an audiophile "fab". I purposely did not post the question in cable forum for that.

Whether I hear the difference in a "cryo" CD does not prove or disprove the possible theory.

Lugnut,
I received my MSE from Stanford University in 1996 and BS in electrical engineer and MSE double major from UC Davis in 1994. For the last 8 yrs, I have been working as a process engineer in a semiconductor capitol equipment company working on CVD product. So most people would say that I have a ok background in thermodynamic, electrical engineering principles, plasma physics, semiconductor physics, gas dynamic, metallurgy and associated process treatment.

I think that's enough background to post a likely theory and ask a question about "Cryo" treatment on audiophile product.

Having a shoot-out means very little to this discussion. There is nothing wrong with subjective listening test. I do all of my purchasing based on subjective listening test; however, it has very little to do with science.

Eric J Liu (feel free to look it up)

I mentioned the martensite transformation for one very important reason. It is a "diffusionless" phase transformation..in other words, the change at the atomic level, from a face centered cubic crystalline structure (FCC) to the body center cubic one (BCC) will occur without the need for specific atoms to migrate within the structure. So, all the atoms are there, they just re-arrange a tad. As the metal is cooled, the driving force that makes the structure change to BCC eventually is large enough that the changes occurs.

Diffusion based transformations on the other hand, do indeed require heating, so that the atoms have enough energy to move about to where they want to be..a good example is that of a "cored microstructure" like copper-nickel, where initial solidification is around particles of one alloy, and subsequent solidification has a gradient of alloy content..this structure requires heat treatment to homogenize the overall material. BTW, all of this stuff is in Barrett, Nix, and Tetelman.."The principals of engineering materials",Prentiss Hall, 1973..

Obviously, for a cryo treatment to work, the transformation would have to be a diffusionless one.. Since cryo treatments are shown to be effective for modifying macro properties for many disciplines, one can certainly make the argument that there are many different diffussionless reactions out there.

For wires, I certainly cringe at the thought that the metal undergoes some "magic transformation" which somehow makes it easier for the electrons to glide through the lattice, and certainly would expect to measure any such change as a change in resistance. Plastics, on the other hand, are more difficult to brush off..

CD's and cryo for example..I'd look at:

1. Does the process stress relieve the plastic, making the disk flatter as it is spinning? (the internal stresses of a spinning disk will be slightly different from one at rest).
2. Does the process help re-arrange surface atoms in either the reflective layer or the poly surface?
3. Does it alter the optical properties of the poly by surface re-arrangement?. or, perhaps some diffusionless transformation similar to martensite?

I would assume that all these could be easily checked by checking the end result...bitstream comparison of two cd's, one cryoed..

Bill..a distinction must be made between intelligence and work experience..I have some experience in the cryo world..but thanks for the kind words...

Cheers, John

John,
For martensitic formation to occur, steel needs to be heated well above room temperature first. That temperature will depend on the composition of the steel. (how much carbon and other metal additive and etc) Again, a heating cycle is needed.

For a reaction to occur, a driving force is needed. (physical force, thermal, elctro-magnetic and etc) Reducing the temperature certainly will not provide that driving force.

This brings up another theory for me. If you combine cryo treatment with some kind mechanical machining at the lower temperature, you can potentially change the micro-structure due to internal stress difference and mechanical force; however, this is not what I have understood about today's Audiophile "cryo" technique. From what I read in the brochure, it's dipping the desired object in a cool solution.

Eric