Jazz for aficionados

Rok, we all have different tastes; that is stating the obvious. Having said that, I couldn't disagree with you more concerning your comparison of the Peplowski and Marsalis cuts. Like I said, we all have different tastes and I am not about to try to change your mind, but will explain why I think the Peplowski cut, as a representation of that style of jazz, is infinitely superior.

You missed the whole point of my choice. First of all it was tied to featuring the clarinet along with the Buddy DeFranco cut.You are correct, there is something missing in the Peplowski cut: clutter. That is precisely the point. The way that guitar and clarinet only can generate that much drive and swing WITHOUT drums and bass and other horns is the point. Call it chamber jazz, if you will. Lastly and most importantly, in the Marsalis cut, while Vignola excels again, the other soloists are not on the same level as Peplowski. O'connor's solo is stiff, Marsalis is his usual impressive but "not quite right" brand of swing; and Blanding, while delivering the best solo (besides Vignola) is, like Marsalis, simply not idiomatic and not entirely convincing, with deviations into inappropriate and much more contemporary musical vocabulary. IMO.

Regards.

Frogman:

I think this exchange is very important, at least to me it is. I now have a 'concrete example' to play over and over again. And your reasoning to read over and over again. I think after this, I will understand your concept of Jazz.

I will listen to 'Tiger Rag' many times, and try and hear what you hear. And also listen for the 'clutter' in Sweet Georgia Brown.

Thanks for the post.

Cheers

Rok, "The Three Sounds". Chico Hamiltons West Coast CD's were lacking in the sonic department, they weren't as good as the "You tube's". That's why I asked.

Rok, thank you for the reasoned response. To be clear, I am not saying that the Marsalis cut is not jazz, how could I? Only that in the context of that particular idiom and what should be appropriate vocabulary for a tune in that style, I think the Peplowski is more convincing. For instance, all is pretty good until the drums, and later, trumpet and sax come in. The feel is appropriate and "bouncy" (why so many of the tunes from that era had the word "Bounce" in the title); then, when the drums come in, things jump forward a couple of decades (an eternity in the evolution of jazz) with decidedly much more modern swing feel. The horn soloists, likewise, can't resist not staying strictly "inside" the harmony and jump even further ahead with their use of extended harmony (outside the traditional harmony). An over-analysis to be sure, and I am not saying that it is bad at all, or that it is not appropriate to play any tune in any style (Coltrane's "My Favorite Things" !!!), only that the ingredients in that recipe, for me, don't come together as well as in the other one.

Frogman:
Frank Vignola is a guitar virtusos!! The guy is like the Maurice Andre of the guitar. I looked him up on Wikipedia to see his background. It ain't Jazz. As I suspected, he is a great master of the instrument and apparently teaches and publishes how to books on guitar playing. He is good enough to do that.

I listened to more of his youtube stuff to sort of get a context in which to put him. He has clips playing, Scheherezade, Beethoven's Fifth, and several Jazz Standards. Almost as if he is an exhibitionist. He is shown with some other guitarist at something called the Long Beach Jazz Fest. Not very impressive.

The bottom line is this, IMO, he is, as I said a virtuoso. He can play anything. Is he a Jazz guitartist? He has the skills for sure, the question is, does he have an affinity for the music?

Sweet Georgia Brown (SGB)
Could you subconsciously be under the influence of Django and people of his ilk. For instance, When I hear SGB, I think, Stephane and Django. I don't know why. After all, no one does it, or can do it, like Ella. It's that 'bounce' of the guitar. Makes me think that's the way SGB is 'supposed' to sound. Le Hot Club? But that's not correct. It can sound anyway the artist wants it to sound. I liked his solo and I liked the Quintet just as much.

Tiger Rag:

His playing on Tiger Rag was good. I listened to it again and appreciate it more now. I still think a duo of guitar and clarinet does not have the 'weight' to do Jazz justice. His solo on SGB was better due to the backing of Carlos Henriquez on bass.

The most I see him doing in Jazz is having a nice career in Europe or carve a niche for himself here in the USA as a player / teacher. Sort of like Grappelli.

As always, IMO.

Cheers