Jazz for aficionados

Shirley Horn, I have her CD 'you won't foget me'. That one includes Wynton, Branford and Miles. The lady traveled in good company. On another one she has Roy Hargrove. She has a thing for trumpet players? The clip you sent was indeed special.

Cootie Williams played with the Duke. So of course he can play. Wynton's solo on the Horn song was him doing what the song and the moment required.

Your comments on personal perferences and appreciations are right on target. Well said. Even me, with my big mouth, cannot think of anything to add. You Nailed it.

Your comments on the Wynton/Clapton CD? Extremely Close, But No Cigar.

You are not considering the total situation. I.E. the context of the playing. This was not a 'blowing' session. It was written arranged music, promoted as Wynton and Eric play the blues. It was not a head cutting event. The audience got what they came to hear.

All music arranged by wynton. No leader dominating the solos. Everyone played. All Had their moments. This was not a JATP thingy.

Considering the moment, the song, the location, the event,... the solo was perfect. The Shirley Horn tune called for something else, so he did something else. When he performs with Kathleen Battle doing Mozart, he again, does what is called for.

A few things to remember about Wynton.

He plays to please the audience. He actually wants people to like Jazz. So, sometimes he meets them halfway.

He is not from the 'mean streets' of anywhere, he is a memeber of a highly accomplished and respected Jazz music family, born and raised in the birthplace of Jazz.

He plays to give enjoyment and pleasure to the listener.
I have him playing and singing (scatting) on a CD by Jon Hendricks. Doing the same on a CD with Willie Nelson!
And of course the Clapton CD. Name another Jazz player that could do that. You want to know where he is coming from, think Louis Armstrong.

Some Jazz players, usually the unsuccessful ones, play for themselves. And others, the ones that do well, play for their audience, while exposing them to new things.

I ignored your 'IMO' thingy. That's understood and applies to us all, and if that was the final word, we could close the thread now.

Cheers

Orpheus10, good description of Shirley Horne's artistry. She is a beautiful singer; and plays great piano, too. That recording (Here's To Life) featuring the songs and orchestrations of Johnny Mandel is a true gem; beginning to end.

Rok, I am well aware of the context of "Layla". Of course, it was not a blowing session. But, in any context, when a truly exceptional improviser plays, the depth of the playing can "shred to pieces" lesser players. It doesn't have to be flashy, nor with a lot of notes. Nor does the intent have to be to surpass anyone else; the playing simply excels. Your point about Wynton playing for the moment is well taken. But, I would not give him too much credit for that; that is basic musicianship and there are many layers of excellence that go beyond that basic musical demand that separate the greats from the not so great.

****He plays to give enjoyment and pleasure to the listener.
I have him playing and singing (scatting) on a CD by Jon Hendricks. Doing the same on a CD with Willie Nelson!
And of course the Clapton CD. Name another Jazz player that could that****

Are you kidding? That is what jazz players do (not all scat well, of course). They are able to fit into a variety of situations:

Zoot Sims played on Phoebe Snow's debut album. Phil Woods played on Billy Joel's "I Love You Just The Way You Are". Wayne Shorter played on Steely Dan records, the list goes on and on. BTW, you want to hear great scatting from a trumpet player? Check out Clark Terry; amazing!

I am not a Wynton basher in the least. My point (which perhaps I have tried to make a little too gingerly, in order to not offend some;-) ) is that Wynton is a fine player, but sometimes inconsistent; and, at the end of the day, not on the level of many of the greats as far as depth of playing. That is simply why, with so many great classic recordings still missing from my collection, Wynton's are just not near the top of my list. Additionally, I doubt that fifty years from today, jazz students will be transcribing Wynton's solos. As far as he deserving the adulation that he receives from some AS A PLAYER, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Amazing performances by Clark Terry:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3AvImcsbt1U

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ldnGJn3wz2s

Frogman, we have no argument. I never said, or at least never meant to say that Wynton is the BEST anything. I am just reacting to the Wynton bashing that is out there. Not from you, but from many. If he is not the WORST Jazz player, then bash the guys whom he is better than! Just for a change.

Cheers

Clark Terry has been my favorite for years. Even when everyone else was going gaga over Miles. Maybe because I played Flugelhorn in concert band.

Rok,
I feel the same, Wynton isn't my favorite trumpeter or the"best".I do enjoy his music and have much respect for him on several different levels. Like you I long ago tired of the redundant bashing.
Regards,

Charles1dad:

Smart Jazz players and fans support Wynton and his efforts to expose new people to Jazz and increase the fan base of the music. And in order to do that, the music must be accessible. Not a job for the Ornette Coleman's of the world.

It's sort of like Tiger Woods. Although all golfers want to win and try to win, they know that if they can't win it, it's better for them all if Tiger does. The more he wins, the more money for them all.

I have never heard or read of a Jazz player bashing Wynton. I think they know better. Too bad the fans don't.

Thanks for the words of support.

Cheers.

BTW, lest there be any doubt. I do not consider The Frogman a basher. That type of thing would be beneath a person with his musical knowledge and background.