Jazz for aficionados

Frogman, calling this better than that, amplifies the subjectivity of this music. "Better" is a bad choice of words. Although the difference between Bill Evans, and Bobby Timmons is as wide as the Pacific Ocean, "better" is a word that could be left out of the discussion.

Bobby Timmons music projects a philosophical, and sociological point of view, that is probably foreign to Bill Evans, and vice versa. The fact that both of these individuals can strike a piano key, and say more than a short story is incredible; however, just as frequency is all important, whenever music is sent and received by transmitter and receiver; so it is by musician and audience; they both have to be on the same wavelenth.


No one has sent messages that have encompassed the depth and volume of Bobby Timmons music. People who can neither read nor write, understand Bobby Timmons musical messages. Bill Evans music is beautiful and eloquent, and comparing the two is apples and oranges.

Those eloquent discussions in that documentary were an attempt to come to some "objective" conclusion in the "subjective" world of music. They would have had to include the music of "Charles Mingus" in order to bring it closer to the truth. " Fables Of Faubus" is every bit as dynamite, as the tune "Kind Of Blue"


                                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48eAYnfgrAo


As a matter of fact, the inclusion of "Mingus Ah Um Charles Mingus" would have made the discussion more objective, and less like a "Miles Davis fan club"





Enjoy the music.


           

O-10, I love both those bands, but if you forced me to choose the best group from that time period…..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaYQ-I0xQmA

You guys aren't exchanging salvos, you're exchanging Tomes!!

Keep'em coming. :)

Cheers

Acman, The very first record I wore out was "Clifford Brown, and Max Roach", he was my favorite drummer for ages.


Enjoy the music.

O-10, I continue to feel that judgment by using only the subjective standard is a flawed concept and a ruse.  Using that approach I would feel justified in simply saying "O-10, you are simply wrong, THIS other music is better".  I see that as pointless and unproductive and choose to focus on that fact that you simply like a certain style of music more than others.

Honest judgment can only occur with a combination of the subjective and the objective and contrary to your assertion that "there is nothing objective about music", there is much about music that can be judged objectively.  You, yourself, in posting the KOB doc, admitted that there was much commentary about music in it that went over your head.  THOSE are the things that are primarily in the objective realm.  You choose to not concern yourself with those things; but, that doesn't mean that they are not there.  Simple example:  a jazz pianist's job (besides soloing) is to provide the harmonic underpinnings of the music.  If that piano player is prone to playing wrong notes in the chords that he plays and a given listener is able to recognize the fact that those are wrong notes then he is judging objectively.  A wrong note is a wrong note; a drummer losing time is losing time.  

I have previously commented that the truly smart music lover needs to never lose a certain amount of humility; humility about the inevitable fact that there is always much to learn about art, and I won't repeat my previous comments about the arrogance of describing some of the commentary about KOB as absurd.  I will say, however, that in my universe of musicians of all genres ((including jazz) and many very avid and passionate listeners, anyone who can rightfully be considered a "hardcore fan" does not dismiss "swing" (and earlier), "big band", "post bop" (Nefertiti) and other styles.  Jazz is not only "after Bird"; it's all valid and part of the big picture.  Some is good and some not so good regardless of style.  I have no issue with anyone wanting the label of "hardcore fan", but if it is used to somehow buttress one's point of view when there is disagreement, and suggest that the disagreeing person is not a "hardcore fan", then there's a problem.  Anyway, spirited discussion is a good thing; Rok, seems to think so.  

Jafant said it very succinctly ****All jazz is good jazz**** and then he goes on to state which styles he likes best.  Can't argue with that.