SET 45 Amp Driving Dynamic Speakers


I have an Antique Sound Labs Tulip SET amp running Emission Labs mesh plate 45s, driving Audio Note AN E speakers. It will play WAY louder than I want to listen, and the dynamics are amazing with all types of music.

Why do I keep reading that 45s (and other low power triodes) are only appropriate for horns, or other super efficient speakers? I think a real disservice has been done to the audiophile community by the propagation of this idea. IMO, anyone who prefers to listen to music at sane levels can enjoy the many benefits of a low power SET amp with carefully chosen dynamic speakers.

Anyone else feel this way/have similar experience?
tommylion
When I checked my levels in the past, I didn't get much above 90 db on peaks. That was setting it as loud as I would ever want to listen. Most of the time, it was lower than that. 100 db peaks must be painful, not to mention the potential for hearing damage.
If 100 db peaks are painful, either you already have some sort of hearing damage or the amplifier is making a lot of distortion. The measure of any good system is the quality wherein it is not easy to figure out how loud its playing without instruments (sound level meter) or trying to talk to someone beside you and be heard. IOW 100 db peaks should be effortless and relaxed!! Usually when a system sounds like it is loud or verging on painful that is a sure indication that distortion is playing a role.

The usual solution is more power so that the amp will not make distortion.

In Tommy's case, with only about 0.75 watts to 1 watt available, the maximum power before higher ordered harmonics appear is likely about 0.15 watts to 0.20 watts. The sound pressure with the Audio Notes at 1 meter is thus about 90 db (less at greater distances) before harshness sets in. From his comments it appears to me that he is routinely pushing the amp too hard- he is likely further from the speakers than just 1 meter.

Unless he's listening in a very lively environment or in a very small room, the simple fact is that a more efficient speaker will bring out a lot more of the magic that 45s have in spades (I have type 45 amps BTW; my speakers are 98 db and the amps fall flat on their face because they simply don't make the power. My room is 17' x21'.). This is one of those situations where context is everything as Charlesdad points out. For example, as a desktop setup this would be pretty sweet. But for serious home listening I'd want a speaker that was more like 107 db, such as the Hartsfield or something like that.

The magic of SETs comes from the fact that as power is reduced, so is distortion, down to the point where it becomes unmeasurable. When you are running distortion this low, the result is that more detail is revealed as it is not obscured by the distortion due to the human ear's masking rule. A type 45 amp no if ands or buts has wider bandwidth than higher powered SETs- that is why it sounds better. If you really want to hear what that is all about a high efficiency speaker is mandatory.
My approach is I want to be able to enjoy listening at any practical volume needed. The only way to accomplish this is to avoid clipping and distortion.

One might be satisfied with lower volumes only but if speaker amp integration is not done well one may practically have no other choice.

Also distortion usually sets in at subtle levels that may not be clearly audible well before one becomes aware of a problem.

One may certainly choose to not care about these things but they are real issues to consider and understand for best results in most any case IMHO.



"100 db peaks should be effortless and relaxedd" Atmasphere wrote. 
I understand your point however that is a loud volume and is perceived as such via healthy ears. I previously cited this volume le jazz club I frequently attend. It's an intimate environment with the musicians unmixed probably 90%of the time. 

You're listening to the pure sound straight from the instruments without the imposition of electronic distortion. Under these ideal circumstances when they hit the 100 db level "it sounds loud". Painful or uncomfortable? No,  very loud? Yes. My point is some listeners would want to duplicate this at home and some would not. Either is preference. 
Many lesser solutions have their charms. People choose or settle for them all the time.

The merits can be argued subjectively only. Often that’s enough for many of similar mindset.

Its just one of those things that some may go completely gaga over for good reasons but probably not so much with those who care more about technical aspects or what works best together or not and why.

I am a big fan of the 45 tube.  I have heard it used in parallel single-ended, pushpull (I own a pushpull 45 amp) and in single output tube single-ended configuration.  It delivers a very punchy, clear and detailed sound when operated well within its upper output limit. 

I think someone can effectively utilize a 45 SET amp with the AN-Es in a smaller room, provided that one accepts that it will not be able to play at high volume levels.  I am quite familiar with the AN-E and I have heard it with some fairly low-powered amps; a local dealer frequently pairs the AN-E with an Audio Note Kageki amp which is rated at 6.5 wpc.  I can hear the limitations of this amp when playing demanding music, such as large choral pieces.  The music begins to suffer from compression and becomes muddled and unfocussed to a slight degree.  But, these are problems I can see someone living with because, for the VAST majority of the time, a good 45 amp will sound great.

I do agree with Atmasphere that a 45 SET is really best used with extremely high efficiency horn systems.  A friend had such an amp for his107 db/w system and it sounded great.  That kind of combination can be recommended without much reservations; the use of a 45 SET with something like the AN-E can only be recommended with the caveat about limited volume levels.