Jazz for aficionados

jafant

Thanks for  informing everyone about Cecil Taylors passing.

acman3
Good representative clip you posted of Cecil Taylor . Here's another with Max Roach ( song is cut short)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jMfWrTawRSE

orpheus10
Cecil Taylor was a one of a kind spirit who went his own way and carved out a style unlike anyone else. Intense, thought provoking , not for the faint of heart. Some thought he was all noise , no technique, I disagree. Not always easy to listen to but a journey well worth taken.http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5yJWcxzZBVE  

Excellent posts all. nsp makes a key point:

**** I think where this discussion gets bogged down is in STYLISTIC differences. ****

**** that when jazz music changes stylistically that the listener may change how they listen to the music to be able to appreciate what the musicians are attempting to convey. Or to put it another way it takes a different set of ears to absorb and appreciate a new direction. Some people try and they get it , others try and the music does not resonate with them. ****

That point is so important and goes to what I am afraid is an old stereotype.  That of young players and the whole “music school” myth.

**** I've also noticed how today's artists can excel at playing classical, but not jazz, or they can play jazz as long as it's written down. That tells me artists of today, are as good as artists of yesterday, when it comes to their instrument, but they haven't mastered the jazz vocabulary or feel. ****

O-10, I have to respectfully correct you on that point.  I am not sure where or why you have this notion that good players today can play jazz only when it is written down or that they can’t excel at it.  That suggests that they don’t improvise.  It is simply not true and goes to nsp’s point.  It also seems to contradict some of what you have said in your last few posts.  If they are not improvising it is not jazz.  THAT is a given.  They most certainly can improvise; and some do it brilliantly.  They play in a style that apparently does not resonate with you.  That’s fine, but don’t short change them.  If anything, many excellent young players today have absorbed a broader vocabulary than most of the old guard.  It is the style (feel) that is a distillation of all the previous styles that perhaps does not resonate with you.  Moreover, young players today still hone their craft in clubs and jam sessions as they always have.  That is another stereotype.  On a smaller scale than in the past, but on any given night in NYC you can find good jazz at several clubs.  What is different is that in SOME cases they also have a more formal training as instrumentalists.  They can do things on their instruments that many of the older players could not.  That opens a lot of possibilities.  Again, it is the style that is different.  

Something good to listen to while the discussion unfolds...

from "The Music of Eric Von Essen Vol. III" 
Track 4:  It's Just One Big Party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFeyG91Lg0w

Link to the All Music E.V.E. bio...
https://www.allmusic.com/artist/eric-von-essen-mn0000801306/biography

The All Music Guide review of Vol. III
https://www.allmusic.com/album/the-music-of-eric-von-essen-vol-3-mw0000660394

Frogman, I have pointed out MY observations not yours. Maybe their stylistic differences are so great that I don't consider them good jazz.

Why are the best examples you display are of them playing Mingus's music?

O-10, thanks for your comments. I don’t understand an “observation” of something that cannot be there. The issue of whether current players are improvising or not is not a matter of observation it is a matter of fact or not; and it is a very simple matter to establish. I have no issue with you not liking the way that modern players play, but I think they at least deserve credit for what they are in fact doing.

I don’t understand the comment about Mingus. Those examples may be the best for you, but I don’t understand the relevance here. I would appreciate some clarification on this and perhaps some clips of examples of prominent modern players in which you feel that their solos are “written down”. Feels like we have done a complete about face on the issue of modern players. I hope not. Btw, re Aaron Diehl’s style and your question: what are your thoughts?

Again, some really great comments by nsp, bluesy, pjw and pryso as well. I think that the spirit of the “ESSENCE” of jazz that nsp talks about is something worth striving for as listeners.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V69Flv9XqA0

Future jazz standard?:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CzJ7jLAn4Iw