Zu Soul Superfly

Audiofeil: Thank you for injecting some reality into discussion!

Suppose you have high power SET with Zu? Like aleph 60? I would like to think problems I have heard with Zu & SET are the obviously inadequate W, not anything to do with topology of SET which I think will work well for speaker.

>>It seems you are dead set on setting up potential Soul owner for disappointment. I cannot dissuade you. There is no tone without proper alignment, it is dead. And I will not honor your "loud preamp" argument with response. If you want dead tone with the type of "dynamic" you get with loud pre-amp, and pay $3K+ for pleasure, then please do buy Soul, plops down, and pay flea watt tubes. Phil will appear and try to sell you more stuff.<<

In fact, no. You do not accurately represent my point of view nor what I wrote, and perhaps you haven't even read it thoroughly.

For you and I, tone can be dialed-in from where it starts with the speaker's and the system's intrinsic qualities. But a non-audiophile music lover can easily avoid what you refer to as "dead" sound or absence of tone. Alignment cannot create tone where it isn't intrinsically present. On the other hand, alignment can improve tone that is already intrinsic to the gear. It's just degrees. You and I might need more because we know it can be extracted. But we're not going to enlarge the community by insisting that everyone must be so precision-oriented to have fun with music via hi-fi. And certainly, that's not what Zu wishes to enforce. I want people to buy the right amp for any Zu FRD-based speaker so they have intrinsic tone, and then they can choose how far they want to go in system optimization themselves. You won't find me recommending endless incremental purchases to reach a goal.

I didn't recommend a "loud preamp." What I wrote explicitly is that some low-power SET amps (not all, and not always low powered) have lower-than-normal total voltage gain. If you pair a low gain preamp with a low-gain power amp, wherein the input sensitivity of the power amp will not allow it to be driven to full power from normal sources via said preamp, you will have more noise, less tone, and "dead" dynamic life. It's not a matter of having a "loud" preamp, but having one with neither too little nor too much gain. Too much gain presents its own problems, but if you don't have enough gain for a particular source to drive the amp to full power, you won't even get those full 2 or 3 watts.

Now, you haven't found me recommending flea-powered amps. Not once. I've written the opposite. 20 - 60 watts is the sweet spot. Although there is a strong argument for McIntosh MC501s or even MC1201s on 101db/w/m Zu speakers. The sense of complete lack of dynamic restriction from 500 - 1200w is sonically valuable if the rest of the amp is right. But, again, there is a group of people whose commitment to a tube (e.g. 45, 2a3, 50) is so firm that what they're really looking for is a speaker than can leverage their amp, rather than an amp that can leverage their speaker. I understand this. Gerritt at Zu loves the Yamamoto A-08 for reasons that satisfy him. There are many others. For that kind of listener, a Zu speaker will perform beautifully, and in fact if you are set on having only 2 watts, Soul Superfly will work better than anything Zu has built to-date.

People who like flea-power in amplification usually arrive there after having had more conventional amp topologies and power levels. So, they know what they are doing. I'm not concerned about the 2 watt crowd, because very few neophytes start their hi-fi evolution with 2w SET. Those that end up with flea power and like it, will be happy with Superfly. It's just not me. I use 25w 845 SET monoblocks on Definitions, and 25w PSET 300B monoblocks on Druids.

Phil

for you Zu guys---i just ordered a Triode 845SE integrated amp for my Definition 2s. It's a 20 watt SET driven by 845s, of course. Can report back on the sound---but the build quality at its price level seems impressive.

I also have a Mcintosh MA6600 that works very, very well with my Zus. I had a BAT integrated before, and the McIntosh is 100% better match for Zus. If you go SS, you need warm SS.

And i'm one of those silly guys with a treated room as well--- while Zus may work great in untreated rooms, the discerning audiophile who takes the effort and time to put simple treatments will be rewarded. The difference in clarity, imaging, bass definition, and detail was night and day in my room---i would estimate 70% of your sound is speaker/room interaction. There are things I wish I had done differently now-- but putting in a bass trap or two, treating first reflections, putting some bookshelves in the back of the room, and dealing with a lowish ceiling (in my case--boy i wish i had 10' ceilings) are extremely easy to do and well worth it, despite any kind of speaker design.

Cheers,

KeithR

I must admit I have become a little disappointed with this thread. As has been observed on another forum (Google it) this thread has become a little bit of a p•••••g contest. There is from an outsiders perspective the irony that there is a debate going on about attracting non-audiophiles into the tent whilst in the midst of s discussion almost guaranteed to put them off.

FWIW I do not consider myself an audiophile. My first system was based on ignorance and from reading reviews. I struck lucky with two thirds of it and five years later sorted the other third through making the same mistake. I now have source and amps sorted and simply need speakers that produce the best from it. Little I have read here beyond Phils description of the differences between Soul and Druid would make me consider the Soul.

The problem is perhaps that people see audiophile as something to aspire to. Ignorance is clearly not bliss but generally you find that people don't use their technical knowledge to solely their own benefit but to also engage in the aforesaid type of contest.

Describing people with 2k who don't care about ghe other stuff in the terms they've been described on here won't bring them into the camp. It'll do the exact opposite. The reality is that most who spend on audio do so for a myriad of reasons that are beyond classification. Insulting any of them is unhelpful.

I have been doing this for 20 years. I've spent 9 of them listening to music and maybe have some clue about what I'm talking about for the last three.

It kind of said it all on here that whilst you were all engaged in bot talking about the speaker it tool the manufacturer to point out to Gopher that an amp is not a priority at this stage.

Anyone want to talk about ghe Soul Superfly now? :)

Mike

My basic position is that Zu Soul is a "very big tent" speaker. A huge range of people can / will find satisfaction with it. I also take the position that with Zu FRD speakers, the most important decision after buying the speakers is the amp to drive them. This decision will drive the character of the system and it overwhelms room tweaking or anything else. It doesn't saddle the Soul buyer with a high expense -- there are many affordable amps that will sound good -- but anyone inclined to spend for extraordinary quality will find that Soul can fully take advantage of outstanding amplifiers.

Buy them for music, learn about hi-fi through what they can show you if you care to, regardless how much experience you bring to the transaction. If you don't care about the hi-fi aspects, you'll enjoy them anyway (perhaps more). Music enjoyment is the first objective. No one cares about imaging when out hearing a bar band, but jump factor and dynamics definitely count.

Phil