What percentage of audiophiles use a sub ?

Mapman's #2 appropriately addresses Lear's comment. The biggest impact of my subs - BY FAR - is the peak/dip between 70hz and 120hz. I use 2 DRC subs and bassbusters and the measured response of my sytem in this range went from +/-14db to +/- app 1.5 db. I assure you that this is audible.

As to lowest frequencies: My Rythmiks aren't particularly optimized for this range, but they still outperform any full range loudspeaker that I've heard. While Lear is right about the limited content way down there in the deepest bass - I've never measured response below 30hz on any recording I own, even though a FR sweep shows my system flat to 25hz - there is still a real audible impact on deepest bass. An oversized bass drum which has a fundemental around 50hz sounds different when the subs are on board. It's almost a spacial character in which the sound expands and "blooms" in a way that sounds much more natural than on full rangers. This might be due to the "clean up" higher in frequency, or it might be some other phenomenon.

I know that this isn't a particularly "granular" or technical analysis (and it certainly surprised me to experience it), but it does comport with the oft expressed belief that subs improve soundstage. IMHO, there really is an impact on low end info when good subs are deployed.

Bottom line: Despite the dearth of truly low end musical info, subs can significantly improve a music only 2 channel set-up. IME and IMHO.

Marty

Yes, also true that offloading bass to a separate powered sub provides potential for full range speakers to perform better in remaining range covered in many cases due to less demand on the speakers to cover a wider range and benefits now to amplifier driving the speaker now over a more limited range as well.

Mapman's #2 appropriately addresses Lear's comment. The biggest impact of my subs - BY FAR - is the peak/dip between 70hz and 120hz. I use 2 DRC subs and bassbusters and the measured response of my sytem in this range went from +/-14db to +/- app 1.5 db. I assure you that this is audible.

I'm in a discussion in another sub-centric thread and have been specifically addressing a consistent, room-generated dip/peak around 80hz(dip) that I've been battling for years with my room. Currently the two integrated subs in my speakers do not address it, nor has any speaker/sub combination (though I have not tried more than two subs at a time, which I think Duke is suggesting there). I was going to follow up some recent input there with this question: with such room-specific suckouts, will altering the position of the system in the room significantly alter where and whether that suckout occurs, or are they entirely independent of positioning? It seems to be more common than I was aware, and frequently in the low end of the music.

My experience goes along with Marty's comment that, though you may not hear it specifically (BOOMBOOMBOOM), having the fuller range does augment instruments and sound that live in the lower spectrum - music, especially the stuff in the lower octaves, certainly sounds different with the subs on vs having the subs off, even though it does not fall into the depths that define the limits of the sub/system.

More often than not (though, fortunately, not always), these days, I find live performances less than appealing in comparison to the intimacy that my system offers. Using live music as a sort of generic bar to achieve, therefore, makes no sense to me. Expecting to replicate a concert hall in your listening room is the stuff of huge, very expensive, speakers set up in larger rooms, moving a whole lot of air, and even then the experience falls short of the real thing in terms of shear scale (though the effect can definitely be breathtaking). Replicating "live" is the proverbial carrot on a stick attached to your head just out of reach. Yes, having a cello sound like a cello certainly does make sense, and in that case, a cello does sound more authentic to it's natural sound when (well-)augmented at the low end. Regarding the frequency range we can actually hear - there is also visceral impact that is not heard, especially in the low end. Those cues do go a long way in bringing the music home, as it were. Experiencing 28hz on headphones is not at all the same as experiencing the same in a room where the sounds wash over your body.

Jax,

I had a similar situation. First I added 2 bassbusters. This had the effect of lowering the output in the 1/2 octave above your suckout. IME, part of the suckout is real and part is actually a function of the hump that often occurs just above this frequncy and extends up to 120hz or 150hz.

With 2 subs (crossed in the mid 70hz range), you can usually find a pretty smooth level match between the subs and the now "bassbusted" response at the bottom octave of the main speakers' (crossed and rolled off) range. DRC will allow you to address the smaller issues that occur (at least in my room) around 50hz and, if you wish, tailor response down in the deepest regions.

I use:

NHT x-2 to roll off bass in my mains
Velodyne SMS-1 to provide DRC via parametric EQ and to optimize integration with mains via the VERY flexible High Cut Filter integrated into the unit.
2 12" Rythmik subwoofers
2 bassbuster knockoffs from

The whole sub-woofin' enchilada ran just under $3000 (a fair bit more than the Ohm 100s I usually employ as my main speakers), but was - IMHO - a great investment. All products are available via money-back in-home trial period, so you might want to think about checking it out.

Good Luck

Marty

Yes, having a cello sound like a cello certainly does make sense, and in that case, a cello does sound more authentic to it's natural sound when (well-)augmented at the low end.

The lowest note on a cello is C2 which is about 65 Hz. That doesn't require a sub unless your recording has noises that include something other than from the bow on the strings.

The problem with many speakers is their response is ragged in this region due to room acoustics and speaker placement issues. Those issues can be addressed, but the answer isn't automatically a sub.