Where are the subs?


In listening to the Bach Toccata and Fugue BMV 565, I was struck by how well the organ pedal notes are reproduced since I moved my primary setup to another room. I complemented myself on a fine job of integrating the Velodyne HGS-10 subs with the KEF Ref 1s, using 40 Hz low-pass with 24 dB/octave. But as I thought about it, I didn’t recall connecting the SMS-1 bass manager to the Ayre KX-5 Twenty preamp. I checked. The subs were not connected. The Ref 1s alone where reproducing that satisfying bass. Amazing for stand mounted monitors. I sure as hell didn’t expect that. To confirm, I played the Saint-Seans 3rd Symphony. Same result. Makes me wonder if I need bother connecting the subs.
Ag insider logo xs@2xdbphd
@dbphd, We may have spoken about this before so forgive me if I am repeating myself, but have you tried a 100 Hz cut off? Does your Marchand have a high pass cut off as well or are you running the Kef’s full range?

I think for Casa Dorinda the system I would like to see you use is the Ayre 5 Twenty with the Codex, Sonore, and LS50s. Add 4 subs to that and be done with it.

Won’t head down that way until late July so that should give you enough time to get the subs repaired.
dbphd:
"As I’m sure you’re aware, an SMS-1 emits a series of pulses through the subs that are captured by its microphone, evaluated, and equalization applied that mainly cuts peaks without amplifying valleys. The process can be for one or multiple subs, so I see no downside in using it. On the other hand, the SMS-1 remote includes an equalization defeat button making it trivial to try the array both with equalization and without."

Hello dbphd,

     I have been looking through the SMS-1 manual.  I was under the impression its corrective equalization did both, cuts bass peaks and amplifies bass dips or valleys.  I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just that I remember a section warning that trying to correct dips/valleys of -6 Db or more could result in overdriving or stressing a sub. But now that I'm thinking about it, it could have been referring to manual adjustments and you could be right that the automatic equalization will not attempt to amplify dips/valleys this large.  
     If this is true, I think it's a positive factor in determining how well a 4-sub DBA and MS-1 combination will actually perform.  I'll leave it to you and Tony to figure out.
     I've just started reading the manual section, starting at the bottom of page 10, on  using multiple subs and how to utilize multiple SMS-1s in a master-slave configuration.  You owning multiple SMS-1s could be very useful.  
    I'm currently thinking connecting both of your 15s on one SMS-1 as a master and connecting both of your 10s on another SMS-1 as slaves might be the best way to set your system up.
     I've also been thinking about the best method for distributing your subs in your 19' x 14' room.  Can you tell me which wall you have your 100" screen mounted on, a short wall or long wall?  And whether you're willing to move the screen and reconfigure your room if it would result in improved system performance?
     Here's an example explaining why this could be important.  You guys may discover that the bass sounds better in your room with the 15s positioned about 8' apart along a 14' wall than along a 19' wall.  The reason could be as simple as the very long deep bass soundwaves (a 20 Hz wave is about 56' long, a 30 Hz wave is about 38' long and a 40 Hz wave is about 28' long) require an extra wall reflection for the entire length of the complete soundwave to exist in the room and be processed by our brains as a deep bass tone.  The 56' 20 Hz soundwave would be launched from the front 14' wall and need to travel the length of the room's 19' length, reflect off the rear 14' wall, travel the 19' length of the room again and reflect off the 14' front wall and travel another 18' toward the rear wall before our brains even process this now complete soundwave to be recognized as a 20 Hz tone.  This is just sort of 3 reflections for the soundwave to be heard.  If the sub was placed along a 19" wall, the same 56' long 20 Hz wave would require almost exactly 4 reflections to be heard. 
     Will this make any difference in the perceived bass quality either with or without room correction?  I'm not sure but you guys will probably be finding out.
    The ability to turn the SMS-1's equalization on or off as a remote function is extremely convenient and another positive factor in determining just how well a 4-sub DBA and multiple SMS-1 combination may actually perform.  
     Things are certainly looking good.  The results should be very interesting. 

Thanks,
   Tim 
Is there a link to Audio Kinesis Swarm installation and setup instructions?
Tim, the speakers are on the 14' wall, an HGS-15 in each corner, an HGS-10 behind each speaker.  The carpet on the wall and ceiling are for video projection, not audio.

Tony, as I understand your suggestion for Casa Dorinda the audio chain would be Sonore microRendu to Codex USB DAC to KV-5 Twenty preamp to VX-5 Twenty amp to KEF LS50s.  Or maybe the QX-5 Twenty digital hub instead of the Codex?  It takes either ethernet or USB, and I'd guess the DAC in the QX-5 might be superior, but Gary at Ayre can provide guidance on that.  The preamp feeds the SMS-1 that controls the four subs.

The Marchand is a fixed high-pass 80 Hz 4th order filter with the particular virtue of being fully balanced and passive.

db