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Seriously considering tube preamp…opinions?

Tube virgin, here. I am building a system and I'm trying to contain the preamp/amp cost to $3k or so. (I could go up a little.) 

I'm inclined not to dive into tubes all the way through, but get a solid state on the output end. (Open to suggestions; inclined toward PS Audio, Parasound.) I'm reading around about tube preamps and have talked with my local dealer, who sells Black Ice/Jolida and Prima Luna (PL). He used to carry Rogue but said they kept coming back for repairs. That's why he carries PL.

I'm asking these questions after having established (via reviews, comments) that Schiit gear is quite the value. Lately, I've been reading about Decware and other small tube makers. I'm very curious about buying direct, if possible, and a company that stands behind their products is crucial.

So, your opinions about tube integrated or *especially* tube preamps —

1. Who do you like? Consider I want to do pre/amp for a total of $3k if possible.

2. Do you think PL is worth all that money just for a preamp? I get the feeling they're high quality but a bit over-hyped. (No disrespect to the highly passionate Kevin Deal, but he's all over my search results.) And what would you think about $2k/$1k preamp-to-amp spending ratio?

3. Any sense of what happened to Jolida since the name change to "Black Ice"? I see there's a sordid story there but did the re-branding clear up the mess? Any experiences with the Black Ice company?

4. I know there are many Schiit fans out there; so my question would be -- did anyone consider Schiit for tube preamp and go another way? Or move beyond Schiit for any particular reason? It's hard not to just capitulate and do a Freya+ or Saga+ but why wouldn't one just go with Schiit?




hilde45
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
5,445 posts
 
Thanks, Markus. I started reading that white paper and it's great. Aimed toward people with electrostatic gear, but I see the principles are general and that will be very useful. Appreciate that.

Glad to hear your view on tube preamps. I've been whipsawed back and forth on this, with some agreeing and others saying, in effect, "If it ain't tubes all the way through, you won't get the effect you're really seeking." I honestly need to listen to hear the proof, but until then, I'm not clear.

I agree about the small builder thought. Quicksilver is such a builder and that's who I'm auditioning tomorrow. Through a dealer, yes, but not a big company.

And you're right about my position not being unique; it may be like a lot of other things we buy — we take a chance. It's just that the money involved is in the 4 figures at least and may be hard to recoup or re-sell. But as many pointed out, it can be hard to find that Ultraverve or whatever. People know them and want them. And tube rolling does a lot (so I hear).

Thanks for taking the time to check back in an add to the advice. I added your comments to some notes I'm keeping.
decooney
2,358 posts
 
hilde45,

Good for you for taking notes with some patience. It will pay off to listen to different combinations and take your time comparing. Looking at the dealer and list of gear they offer, will be very educational for you.  

Yes, sure, you can do the hybrid approach with a tube preamp and solid state amplifier, in most cases you’ll still hear a TWO dimensional sound stage. It can sound really smooth, musical, but not 3D.

Remove the <average> solid state amp (within your budget), and replace it with an appropriately matched tube amplifier (within your budget) to your speakers and you’ll hear a THREE dimensional sound stage - then it will click. It’s like reading about what car to buy, nobody really knows until they go and test drive them and compare. Listen closely, pun intended :)
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
5,445 posts
 
Will do!
mesch
3,530 posts
 
Hilde45, I am looking forward to what you think of the Quicksilver pre. Have the the dealer let you audition with both SS and tube amps.

Using a Jolida Fusion tube pre into a BEL 1001 MK5 SS amp presents a very holographic soundstage in my ~15x12' room.
 Would the right tube amp make an improvement? I can't say.  

I will be receiving a Aric Audio 6sn7 based pre next week to replace the Jolida. I have lived with the Jolida for 7 years and believe it to be a very fine produce at its' proce point. The Aric pre is at greater than 2X the price. Wanted to try the 6sn7 type, all tube including rectification, point to point, variable gain, high input/low output impedance, from a respected one person operation. I will keep you posted. 
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
5,445 posts
 
@mesch  Thanks -- and yes, please keep me posted. This might be a good way to go. I'm not buying today -- I don't even have my final speaker choice decided. This is pre-research (and fun). It's a shame I can only try one tube type today in my price range, but that's going to tell me something. I'm also curious to try solid-state Atoll -- symmetrical power outs -- because they seem a good, smaller company but there are not many reviews for the US market.

@tvad  I got the Harley book yesterday, and already created a "cheat sheet" to take with me during my auditioning today, along with a range of music. Amp power, character, difference to look for between tubes/solid state … I'm ready!
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