Seriously considering tube preamp…opinions?


Tube virgin, here. I am building a system and I'm trying to contain the preamp/amp cost to $3k or so. (I could go up a little.) 

I'm inclined not to dive into tubes all the way through, but get a solid state on the output end. (Open to suggestions; inclined toward PS Audio, Parasound.) I'm reading around about tube preamps and have talked with my local dealer, who sells Black Ice/Jolida and Prima Luna (PL). He used to carry Rogue but said they kept coming back for repairs. That's why he carries PL.

I'm asking these questions after having established (via reviews, comments) that Schiit gear is quite the value. Lately, I've been reading about Decware and other small tube makers. I'm very curious about buying direct, if possible, and a company that stands behind their products is crucial.

So, your opinions about tube integrated or *especially* tube preamps —

1. Who do you like? Consider I want to do pre/amp for a total of $3k if possible.

2. Do you think PL is worth all that money just for a preamp? I get the feeling they're high quality but a bit over-hyped. (No disrespect to the highly passionate Kevin Deal, but he's all over my search results.) And what would you think about $2k/$1k preamp-to-amp spending ratio?

3. Any sense of what happened to Jolida since the name change to "Black Ice"? I see there's a sordid story there but did the re-branding clear up the mess? Any experiences with the Black Ice company?

4. I know there are many Schiit fans out there; so my question would be -- did anyone consider Schiit for tube preamp and go another way? Or move beyond Schiit for any particular reason? It's hard not to just capitulate and do a Freya+ or Saga+ but why wouldn't one just go with Schiit?




128x128hilde45
@decooney  Thanks for your perspective regarding my system. My BEL amp was manufactured in 2007 so it has a few years let in it prior to needing a refresh. Not sure what I would replace it with, possibly a Pass XA25. Looking forward to playing with the Aric preamp. I am using a Audio Mirror Tubadour DAC III which provides a great soundstage. I will look into the 6sn7 tubes you suggested.

I agree with you that the non-remote Quicksilver pre is great value.

  
@mesch Why non-remote? Is the sound better without it or is the price difference not worth it?
@decooney Thanks for your perspective regarding my system. My BEL amp was manufactured in 2007 so it has a few years let in it prior to needing a refresh. Not sure what I would replace it with, possibly a Pass XA25. Looking forward to playing with the Aric preamp. I am using a Audio Mirror Tubadour DAC III which provides a great soundstage. I will look into the 6sn7 tubes you suggested.

I agree with you that the non-remote Quicksilver pre is great value.

Comparing your SS to SS:
Yes, the Pass XA25 is nice, would likely be my choice for $ IF I ever went back to SS amps and a smaller room. A buddy who bought my former modded Cary V12R went back and forth several times with the XA25, liked both, but the larger tube V12R with 50wpc Triode / 100wpc ultra linear one his heart over, XA25 got returned. I sold that lovely V12R to try the QS 120 Monos for some larger custom speakers - 2x the transformer foot print too. The QS Mono 120s closed the gap on power, added dynamics for my larger 92.5db speakers. Had to change inputs to NOS tubes to make it a more fair comparison. Much closer to the big Cary now. Deciding on caps now to make it a fair competition.  re: SS, yes, I still look at Nelson’s Monoblocks mainly because I grew up in Pass Land and admire his work, worked at the same speaker Co too  :) when I was younger. He truly gets "soundstage", kinda like your BEL has. For your own comparison IF you need to compare for power and dynamics (compared to your BEL), in all fairness maybe something like the Pass 60.8 monos or 100.8 amp to be fair. Your BEL is no slouch on grunt at 200wpc, right? Yes, XA25 is nice, but not 200wpc like the BEL. It’s all speaker dependent. Now XA25 with the right Harbeths could be nice too :).  I continue to admire how Nelson works very hard to make SS sound like tube! (i.e. lower power Firstwatt SIT-3), Pass XA25, etc.  

QS Linestage Pre vs remote version:  
Clarification (Quicksilver LineStage Preamp, non-remote version) is a "value" not only because it’s less cost, MANY will argue its the more purest preamp because it "sounds better" "more musical" than the QS remote control version preamplifier (different design, different volume control). Side by side many say the lower cost Linestage is the ticket for sound, and you are only dealing with TWO tubes, makes vintage NOS upgrades low cost, easy, less noise! Most cave and go for the more exp remote version. I ended up keeping my former Cary Audio 6SN7 preamp now paired with the Quicksilver Mono 120s and it’s very very nice. Love it, actually.  Pairing Brand-A with Brand-B can be done but it’s always a gamble til you actually try it.
Post removed 
+1, what tvad said. Agree.
--------------------------------------------

David,
Reading above you went for a nice dinner and got served an appetizer and the restaurant stopped serving, chef went home, servers started cleaning up and turned off the open sign. Missed the real Entree and the Desert. :)

Heads up on the "we’ll only tell you about the... "what we have in stock sales person". Of course they could only show you what they had, but did they make much reference to what they could order too, a clue.

The QS Linestage paired with QS Mid Monos or Mono 60s was the ticket for 86-92db speakers. Mono 120s for harder to drive speakers. The little QS Integrated is nice for lower power more efficient speakers at 20wpc. Unfair comparison other than to learn what a musical amp can sound like. I run the QS Mono 120s for my 93db speakers and it’s a great match. Your Salk Wow1s are 84db, right? (it always starts with the speakers...).

This is where QS Monos start to shine to compete with good SS amps with regard to dynamics, driver control. The Rogue recommendation is what they had in stock, different sound, in your budget. Might be your ticket for the $ excluding comparison to QS Linestage + Mid Monos (you did not hear it yet :), unfair to compare to the the little musical integrated (amazing btw), only when paired with the right efficiency speakers.  Same situation.

I find QS Monos are rarely in stock at dealers, usually sold before they get there. Gotta ask the dealer to order/hold them in all fairness. Back to square-1. :) Once you hear a really nice (power equivalent) tube amp to speaker match, you’ll gain much better insight. Patience and persistence can pay off in this instance until you get a chance to really "hear" it.  :)