2. amps-preamps
  3. 154690-139155

Seriously considering tube preamp…opinions?

Tube virgin, here. I am building a system and I'm trying to contain the preamp/amp cost to $3k or so. (I could go up a little.) 

I'm inclined not to dive into tubes all the way through, but get a solid state on the output end. (Open to suggestions; inclined toward PS Audio, Parasound.) I'm reading around about tube preamps and have talked with my local dealer, who sells Black Ice/Jolida and Prima Luna (PL). He used to carry Rogue but said they kept coming back for repairs. That's why he carries PL.

I'm asking these questions after having established (via reviews, comments) that Schiit gear is quite the value. Lately, I've been reading about Decware and other small tube makers. I'm very curious about buying direct, if possible, and a company that stands behind their products is crucial.

So, your opinions about tube integrated or *especially* tube preamps —

1. Who do you like? Consider I want to do pre/amp for a total of $3k if possible.

2. Do you think PL is worth all that money just for a preamp? I get the feeling they're high quality but a bit over-hyped. (No disrespect to the highly passionate Kevin Deal, but he's all over my search results.) And what would you think about $2k/$1k preamp-to-amp spending ratio?

3. Any sense of what happened to Jolida since the name change to "Black Ice"? I see there's a sordid story there but did the re-branding clear up the mess? Any experiences with the Black Ice company?

4. I know there are many Schiit fans out there; so my question would be -- did anyone consider Schiit for tube preamp and go another way? Or move beyond Schiit for any particular reason? It's hard not to just capitulate and do a Freya+ or Saga+ but why wouldn't one just go with Schiit?




hilde45
mesch
3,530 posts
 
I would talk to Mike Sanders of QS. I have seen the non-remote version described that way on other threads. Much of it would likely be the value of the need for remote. In a small room maybe not so much. Either version represents value. Reasonable price, great company. I have only heard a earlier version lacking remote. I would likely had the QS pre in my system if not for a Friend that was a dealer for Jolida setting me up with mine at cost. Both represent value. 
decooney
2,353 posts
 
@mesch 
 I would likely had the QS pre in my system if not for a Friend that was a dealer for Jolida setting me up with mine at cost. Both represent value.

Yes, and key question. Not sure which Jolida preamp you have, BUT, have you reached out to them for their I-V upgrades they do?  For example, five levels of upgrades to make the preamp sound notably better. My buddy just got all five upgrades (went from upgrade level 2 to level 5) on his Jolida 801 integrated amp, and with all new tubes. Big change.  Circuit boards or not, It went from $1000 tube amp sound to $5000 tube amp sound. Replacing low-cost low-grade caps, resistors, and upgraded wiring with really good NOS tubes can help a lot.  Again, this is what makes really good point-to-point preamps with really good designs and decent parts, and decent stock tubes, great bargain right out of the gate, in comparison, fwiw.  

To give you an idea, from the current Jolida Upgrades page (for fusion):
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clip:  

Fusion Preamp Upgrade I: Replacement of 13 capacitors with Clarity Cap ESAs. Gold pin 12AX7 tubes.
Retail Price: $600                

Fusion Preamp Upgrade lI:
Cardas Input and output RCA Jacks and XLRs (reduces RF interference):
Retail Price: $ 450            

Fusion Preamp Upgrade  III: Addition of the ByBee Rail. Reduces the noise floor by 45dB.
Retail Price: $450                

Fusion Preamp Upgrade IV: Using extreme purity cast wire. All internal signal wire and power wire is installed. Involves 70 feet of ultra copper cast wire and rewiring the complete unit.
Retail Price: $4000            

Fusion Preamp Upgrade V: Combination of 8 pieces of Ultra premium copper foil paper in oil Ride or Audyn Capacitors combined with Clarity Poly caps.
Retail Price: $2000     


hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
5,436 posts
 
Thanks, all, for your reflections. From the get-go, I have not felt a lot of help from this person (nice enough, but young, late 20s or 30s); there’s a kind of impatience with the sales process that makes me feel that I’m over-staying my welcome. It’s a vibe I got. Emails, also, didn’t fully answer my questions — and I did not ask that many. Kept steering me toward what was in stock. Never mentioned other products in the line they actually carry.

@decooney Thanks for the explanation about the non-remote QS. Noted for future reference. Also, they DO have the Quicksilver Mid Mono Amp. Maybe I just suck it up and get QS separates? That would work with any speakers, right?

@tvad After finding myself really psyched about the tube experience, I’m now concerned that you are outlining a real, forced dilemma: give up the speakers or give up the tubes. Or at least give up all-tubes. Some tubes is still possible, if the match is right. Pass labs is beyond my price range and it almost seems silly to outmatch the speakers by so much, no?

Ok, so at this point, it is seeming all-tube QS separates or solid state or still investigating a pair up.

I wish this dealer was a bit better — or at least the salesperson. It’s hard to push away from someone who’s is working with you in the store, but I suppose I could reach out to the owner? Or, as Tvad said, just move on to another dealer or distributor for the QS stuff. (Any recommendations on QS dealers?)
Post removed 
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
5,436 posts
 
@Tvad, you make an excellent point. And I will definitely think hard about the Pass Labs integrated amplifier. The hard question would be if I’m going tubes or not.

That said, you were making a larger point about investing for the longer term. By rejecting the QS integrated at 20 wpc as under-powered (which I heard yesterday and really enjoyed) I think I’m already starting to enact your advice, but in a cautious piecemeal way. You’re saying, "don’t go half-ass" on what is a sound trajectory — toward quality gear.

My thinking against such a high dollar purchase was that I need to live with solid state or tubes or hybrid for a while before knowing what I really want. Paying $6k or whatever, now, much now makes the experiment feel riskier than paying $3k. I guess it all gets re-sold at some point, though, so best not to dwell on the purchase price.
More to discover