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Seriously considering tube preamp…opinions?

Tube virgin, here. I am building a system and I'm trying to contain the preamp/amp cost to $3k or so. (I could go up a little.) 

I'm inclined not to dive into tubes all the way through, but get a solid state on the output end. (Open to suggestions; inclined toward PS Audio, Parasound.) I'm reading around about tube preamps and have talked with my local dealer, who sells Black Ice/Jolida and Prima Luna (PL). He used to carry Rogue but said they kept coming back for repairs. That's why he carries PL.

I'm asking these questions after having established (via reviews, comments) that Schiit gear is quite the value. Lately, I've been reading about Decware and other small tube makers. I'm very curious about buying direct, if possible, and a company that stands behind their products is crucial.

So, your opinions about tube integrated or *especially* tube preamps —

1. Who do you like? Consider I want to do pre/amp for a total of $3k if possible.

2. Do you think PL is worth all that money just for a preamp? I get the feeling they're high quality but a bit over-hyped. (No disrespect to the highly passionate Kevin Deal, but he's all over my search results.) And what would you think about $2k/$1k preamp-to-amp spending ratio?

3. Any sense of what happened to Jolida since the name change to "Black Ice"? I see there's a sordid story there but did the re-branding clear up the mess? Any experiences with the Black Ice company?

4. I know there are many Schiit fans out there; so my question would be -- did anyone consider Schiit for tube preamp and go another way? Or move beyond Schiit for any particular reason? It's hard not to just capitulate and do a Freya+ or Saga+ but why wouldn't one just go with Schiit?




128x128hilde45
lewin_author's avatar
lewin_author
2 posts
 
As it relates to Rogue.....I own the RP-1. I reside in Atlanta and one of the biggest dealers lives here - never had an issue with Rogue - and any questions are quickly answered by Rogue owners - such as fixing my Ground-Loop Noise issue.

The equipment is solid and the RP-1, though only incorporating two 12AU7/ECC82,
and mated to my Vintage NAD-2200 (into 4ohm DYS full-range speakers) created lovely mid-range tones and even spatial (front to back) depth. This summer the NAD-2200 moves to a different room and the Rogue RP-1 will be mated to a new tube amp - I am still researching.
This all said, I may trade up to the RP-5 (the RP-7 does not fit into what I want/need). Major magazines have reviewed these Rogue units...give them a read. As far as your local dealer telling you about Rogue coming back for repairs....never heard this anywhere in the industry, or better yet, contact the staff at Rogue through email and tell them your concern. Good luck with your research and final purchase. 

Kind regards,Lance A. LewinAtlanta
decooney
1,971 posts
 
All brands have issues here or there. Sometimes brand new parts can go bad and humans build them, gets dropped hard in shipping, whatever... things happen. Many get lucky and have no issues for 20+ years too. It’s the dealer and manufacturer support and response is what counts.

As @tvad said earlier, I agree it’s not easy to build a great system, and not always on the first try.

@hilde45,
Going from 0-100mph is not easy or common. Most do start with one component and branch out from there. Ya know, friends and I have built some really great little systems with really good class-a type Monitors in smaller and larger rooms and it sounded fantastic. Don’t discount the smaller speakers too. For many years I used smaller Totem Acoustic Signatures as a reference speaker to compare to when building my own speakers. With the right tube preamp/amp and distance from the wall and not a lot of furniture around, you’d be quite surprised at the results. 20+ years ago we set up a RM-9 tube amp, Audible Illusions Modulus III preamp, + very small Totem Model 1 Signatures with some really good interconnects. AES awarded him a 4th place award and whitepaper write-up from across the US for that little system.  The reviewers were shocked how good it sounded and me too. I heard that same system in at least five different rooms with at least 20 different pairs of interconnects too. The final room and setup made all the difference. The speakers were tiny and mighty. It can be done. Maybe go from 0-60 for now, it is an option if you do decide to upgrade speakers later too. Food for thought.
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
4,974 posts
 
@tvad Thanks. I joined an audio club this morning and visits to folks houses in Colorado will be possible now. I will eat shipping as part of the process. Going to bake that into the spreadsheet. I contacted Tekton — no facility in Utah to tour. Just direct. Hoping to hear from Zu. I'll be at RMAF for sure. I'm realizing that this process may take a while. That's cool. I find it interesting.

@lewin Thanks for the info about Rogue. I definitely have options to try them in Denver. I suspect my local dealer said that in part because he now carries Prima Luna, but I'm not sure. He could just have anecdotal evidence that happened to align with not selling Rogue any more.

@decooney Yes, dealer/mfr support is so important and will make the difference. Appreciate hearing the system-history, too. Small speakers are not out of the question, for sure. The issue is driving them. Good point about 0-60, for sure. Maybe this is possible with the harder-to-drive speakers, but if that can be fixed before setting out on the tube journey, it is sounding like I've had sufficient warnings (about over-spending on tubes to power 84db speakers) and should correct that.
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hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
4,974 posts
 
@tvad If I might wax philosophical for a moment about what’s happened for me, here: this has been a great lesson in "slow technology," a drawing back from that impulse to go 0-100 mph right away. Part of that is impelled, I suspect, by how we buy things now — instantly. Such habits clearly shape, also, how many automatically seek to learn and communicate, too. A favorite thinker who’s been tracking this way of living for 30+ years, Albert Borgmann, calls it the "device paradigm." (He’s quite a famous figure; I recommend his books, and here a good one is: https://www.amazon.com/Technology-Character-Contemporary-Life-Philosophical/dp/0226066290)

But the impulse to speed and automaticity, lack of patience, isn’t necessarily how one must live (as you all know). Conversation and reflection slows me down and helps me realize that doing things quickly is often at odds with doing things well. This general point was familiar to me already (I’ve written on education and the rise of the smart phone), but because audio involves so many complex devices which "do it all," I didn’t grasp how firmly audio, too, is within this sphere.
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