Tone controls -- assuming you're ok with them, when would you try them?


So, I'm learning and experimenting w/ speaker/sub placement. I've had some success. Presently using my old Adcom GTP-400 preamp (treble, bass, and loudness/contour controls). It's likely my next amps won't have tone controls (nor balance). 

Beyond compensating for old/bad recordings, I realize there is, nevertheless, a standing debate whether tone controls are worth the (likely) sound degradation. Imagine that debate was settled and tone controls were deemed worthwhile, overall. IF you'll stipulate to all that, my question is this:

QUESTION: If the sound is not right in your room, and you've placed speakers as best you can, what do you try next? At what point do you go for tone controls?

Perhaps some just go for tone controls from the get-go…happy to hear from you all, too.

FWIW, I saw this nice list from @erik_squires on this topic:   
erik_squires8,293 posts
08-19-2017 11:06am
Tone controls help us compensate for differences in recording trends across decades of recordings.
Tone controls help us adjust our sound quality to different listening situations and volumes.
Tone controls help us adjust for speaker placement.
Tone controls are much cheaper and more efficient way of doing this than most other solutions.
A good tone control is a lot easier to implement than a good equalizer. Fewer bands so more affordable to use high quality parts.

128x128hilde45
@cscrutinizer
As I recall Holger’s Erhard Audio "Aretha" 6SL7 based preamp with tone controls. Off the top of my head don’t remember if it has the tone defeat or loudness switch options or not, or if those were available when he ordered it a few years ago I think it was. He’s swapped out the coupling caps to try a few others to test, and the stock Mundorfs were fine too he indicated http://www.erhard-audio.com/Aretha.html

+1 tvad. I agree that the best way to use a tone control is via a tape loop or if one has a pre or integrated with a fixed output to run from the fixed output to line level input. 
@mesch , tvad -- I'm sorry I'm not quite following.

If one was thinking about separates, are you saying the best way is to insert the tone control *between* the preamp and the amp?

Preamp ----> tone control ----> amp ?

Rather than:

Source ----> tone control ----> preamp ?

And for an integrated, I'm not sure I understand. Sorry.


@ decooney

Thanks, decooney. I'm looking for a tube pre and am considering the Aretha and Don Sachs. I've read only a few, not too descriptive, but positive posts about the Aretha. The Sachs has had all rave reviews. I would have Don add a tape loop for a Loki or other tone control.
@cscrutinizer, 
Thanks, decooney. I'm looking for a tube pre and am considering the Aretha and Don Sachs. I've read only a few, not too descriptive, but positive posts about the Aretha. The Sachs has had all rave reviews. I would have Don add a tape loop for a Loki or other tone control.

cscrutinizer,
I'm not sure if you noticed the option-upgrade selection and the tone defeat feature which is kinda neat, and how the optional loudness function is actually invoked is kinda throw-back interesting.  If you could completely defeat those functions out of the signal path I'm assuming you'd have a purist grade preamp too, if that's the case.

He's compared it to his own Shindo and Dennis Had Inspire preamps too, which he enjoys, yet this is the one preamp he ends up using particularly since moving away from vinyl to R2R Ladder DACs and lossless streamed content, low wattage amps, and high-efficiency speakers which tend to reveal a lot with his main system, fwiw.