If you like the sound of the STA 200 but feel it is struggling a bit with your speakers, then look for a used Job 225. It is almost twice the power, with a bit bigger power supply, and sounds better too. They can be found for around $900 on the used market. The 225 can sound quite amazing with the right speakers.
The peculiarities of a high value, low cost, amp
Bought the acclaimed STA200, last year.
Was surprised to find it can drive my Tekton Moabs with fully developed, detailed, musical sound. I've practically passed out in front of my Moabs, time after time, late at night, for the past six weeks, starting when they first entered my home.
When I push the volume into dynamics that persist into the 85db and up range, for the better part of an hour, the amp yields a fair amount of heat to the top of the chassis and the rear heat fins. This is concerning. Things start getting hot and I draw the volume down. I imagine I'm not the only one facing unseasonable heat with their amps... I keep my tuning mostly to jazz and acoustic sections. Occasionally, I get an itch for rock and roll or something that pushes the bass down and deep. A week ago, I played Lorde's "Royals" and could hear the amp struggle to push the bass notes out, full and clear. There just wasn't enough juice. This, of course, nudges me away from bass rich electronic content, somewhat regrettably, as I do love to embrace as much variety as comes my way.
Another piece, is that the STA is stated to NOT work (well?) with 4ohm speakers, and that is probably what is happening in my description of the limits of the higher volume and bass (electronic) heavy content. Now, I mostly keep my listening in the 85db and under range, and the music is gorgeous. I can hardly believe I'm riding on Moabs, a $500 amp, and a few other inexpensive pieces that collectively deliver sound that I never though I would be able to afford.
Still, the amp is running at its limit on the "bigger" bass pieces. I keep specifying electronic bass, but I'm sure there is more that would push the amp into heat mode. To be more precise, it is probably when deep bass notes are pulling 90+db that the amp fails to keep up, and what is a deep electronic bass note if you can't feel it, thick and full.
So, I'm curious as to your thoughts on what I'm running into... is the heat a problem? I hear it's damaging... If this amp is one of the "steals," but I'm running, on occasion, to its limits, what other "steals" are out there?
When I say steal, I think of things like what I'm reading about class D audio amps. For all of $600 or $700 I can bring an amp into my home that provides 400-600 watts per channel, accommodating the 4ohm load of the speakers...
The Schiit aegir looks very attractive, but I don't think I will have more than 40 watts a channel and then the problem with Royals.
The Vidar looks interesting, could surely push the drivers more effectively than the STA, but I hear the highs are a bit forward and I want my highs right where they are - clear, pure, authentic, not at all harsh.
There may be some other interesting options, but keep in mind - I want very high value for my dollar. Used might be an option...
Was surprised to find it can drive my Tekton Moabs with fully developed, detailed, musical sound. I've practically passed out in front of my Moabs, time after time, late at night, for the past six weeks, starting when they first entered my home.
When I push the volume into dynamics that persist into the 85db and up range, for the better part of an hour, the amp yields a fair amount of heat to the top of the chassis and the rear heat fins. This is concerning. Things start getting hot and I draw the volume down. I imagine I'm not the only one facing unseasonable heat with their amps... I keep my tuning mostly to jazz and acoustic sections. Occasionally, I get an itch for rock and roll or something that pushes the bass down and deep. A week ago, I played Lorde's "Royals" and could hear the amp struggle to push the bass notes out, full and clear. There just wasn't enough juice. This, of course, nudges me away from bass rich electronic content, somewhat regrettably, as I do love to embrace as much variety as comes my way.
Another piece, is that the STA is stated to NOT work (well?) with 4ohm speakers, and that is probably what is happening in my description of the limits of the higher volume and bass (electronic) heavy content. Now, I mostly keep my listening in the 85db and under range, and the music is gorgeous. I can hardly believe I'm riding on Moabs, a $500 amp, and a few other inexpensive pieces that collectively deliver sound that I never though I would be able to afford.
Still, the amp is running at its limit on the "bigger" bass pieces. I keep specifying electronic bass, but I'm sure there is more that would push the amp into heat mode. To be more precise, it is probably when deep bass notes are pulling 90+db that the amp fails to keep up, and what is a deep electronic bass note if you can't feel it, thick and full.
So, I'm curious as to your thoughts on what I'm running into... is the heat a problem? I hear it's damaging... If this amp is one of the "steals," but I'm running, on occasion, to its limits, what other "steals" are out there?
When I say steal, I think of things like what I'm reading about class D audio amps. For all of $600 or $700 I can bring an amp into my home that provides 400-600 watts per channel, accommodating the 4ohm load of the speakers...
The Schiit aegir looks very attractive, but I don't think I will have more than 40 watts a channel and then the problem with Royals.
The Vidar looks interesting, could surely push the drivers more effectively than the STA, but I hear the highs are a bit forward and I want my highs right where they are - clear, pure, authentic, not at all harsh.
There may be some other interesting options, but keep in mind - I want very high value for my dollar. Used might be an option...
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- 46 posts total
Having dealt with some tube amp anomalies after installing the Tekton MOABS, I decided to measure the actual resistance and found mine to measure 3.1 ohms. When I moved the speakers to the 2 ohm output terminal on the amplifier, it resolved the issue. The amplifier manufacturer suggests not tapping for loads less than the output tap rating. Again, this is a tube amp. Might measure your MOABs to see what the actual load is on the amplifier. Also keeping in mind that the resistance can drop when being driven hard. This could be a factor in choosing a new amp. |
@mapman Ok, you’ve drawn me how is the soundstage? How is the ’realism’ of an instrument, say a drum set, or a double-bass, a piano, etc. Soundstage, realism are both top notch. Drums, piano, bass, no matter. The amps are Bel Canto ref1000m and BEl Canto c5i. I also have Vanatoo Transparent One Encore active speakers. Each is bi-amped internally with separate Class D amps. These are small but deliver similar results way above their size and cost. I’ve used a variety of speakers, currently Ohm, KEF and Vanatoo, but also Dynaudio and Triangle in the past. Class D would probably not be my first choice with high efficiency speakers. Tube amps are definitely best suited for that paradigm. I might still go Class D in lieu of a tube amp with high efficiency speakers. |
I'm running a Schiit Saga (SS/Tube, model), and the Cambridge CD transport. Modi 3 DAC. These are my examples of inexpensive components that together amount to what is practically a revelation in audio, in my space. I owned Vandersteen 2CI's for over twenty years, and often frequented the local high-end stores. Most recently, I auditioned the Maggie 1.7's and the Klipsch Cornwall IV. The 1.7's have no bottom end, to speak of, and if I'm going to add twin REL subs to a system, I might as well look for other options. The Moabs don't need any added bass boost. I also auditioned, on two occasions, the Cornwall IV, for sale at the princely sum of $6600 and they play big. A gorgeous sounding speaker, for sure, but about $2K more than the Moabs. I don't think they are any better, although the Klipsch is somewhat easier to drive. I had not heard the Moabs, nor any other Tekton (before purchase), but I'm a researcher and I felt that the roll of the dice was worth it, plus it included a valuable "adventure" into the unknown element, and I'm not at all unhappy with the result. These Moabs are incredibly involving speakers, and as many owners have said, they reveal everything downstream. My experience is that you really don't have to spend $2-3000 to $10,000 on every component in a system, to get the real thing: big, effortless, vividly real, involving, at times mesmerizing sound. And no, for those pondering the Beryllium, I don't think you are going to see some sort of great "improvement," only a somewhat different presentation, and the situation is such that it's almost impossible to compare the beryllium with the non-beryllium option, which is kinda cool, actually. I went non-beryllium, because I like the idea of utter coherence between drivers, and they delivery fully- the speakers sing. I have previously cited an experience I had at a Jazz event in January, where the sound of the drum stick hitting the cymbal metal released sound that was not metal, was almost not metallic at all. The sound was of pure beauty, not harsh, not hitting, just a releasing of pure distinct, shimmering notes. The "purity" of the live event called on me, again and again, during that intimate setting. With a good recording, where the perceptive insight and planning of a sound engineer are maximized, the Moabs produce a sound event that leaves me just about as satisfied as my experience in the jazz club, back in January. I'll leave it there... @mrdecibel I bought the cable you recommended, around the time I bought the amp you recommended - the STA200. So, the low impedance of the speakers, when the bass notes are maximized, can call for more juice than it wants to convey. The speaker/amp combo does produce some awesome "crunching" drum impact; it's the VERY big and low notes - the "the cars that go BOOM!" impacts that leave the amp somewhat withering, certainly not rising to the occasion. @jl35 I'm running the Schiit Saga pre. Loving the combo with the STA. @jengelmann What tube amp are you running and how are you measure the impedance on your Moabs? Terry London claimed they were a nominal 4ohm load... I understand "nominal" to mean they do not drop below 4ohm, but I don't know that he measured the speakers... @bigshutterbug Does the Job handle a 4ohm load? Is the power rating specified for 4ohms? How about 3.1, assuming Jengelmann is accurate... I don't want another version of the same problem I'm facing with the STA200. When I looked, I could not find a 4 ohm spec for the 225 (Job). Where are the sellers of the Crown concept, backing up their claims with vivid examples on equivalent equipment? Anyone familiar with Lofty's Roach Soufflé? |
- 46 posts total