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100W, 200W, or 300W?

I'm pretty new to this and could use some help. Working down my list of upgrades: did speakers, room treatment on order... I think next up is to replace my amp.

I'm currently using a Harman Kardon PA2000 stereo amp that I had sitting in storage. 100 WPC @ 8 Ohm. It's "OK", but it probably the weak point in my system right now.

For speakers, I picked up B&W 805D3 tabletops with stands.

88 dbSPL sensitivity, 8 ohm. They recommend 50-120W @ Ohm for the amp power on their site.

I pulled up an amplifier calculator and plugged in some numbers:

88 sBSPL, 8 ft distance, 85 dB volume w 15 dB headroom and this came out to 3W RMS w 94W peak

I have my heart set on blue watt meters so I see the following options:

1) MA5300 @ 100 WPC, no autoformers, integrated
2) MA7200 @ 200 WPC, has autoformers, integrated
3) MC302 @ 300 WPC, has autorormers, seperates


For the MA5300, I'm concerned that there isn't enough headroom. If I even get close to the 94W peak, it means that I'm pushing the amp to the max, so I'd probably be operating in an area of reduced sonic performance since it's being stressed. Is this a correct assumption?

The MA7200 looks like it'll leave plenty of headroom and it also has (for better or worse) autoformers which seems to be what puts the "mac sound" in macs.

The MC302 is just sexy as heck... but is there any realistic gain with my current set up that I would get by buying one of these? Or is it so much overkill that I am just throwing money away at this point?
eisenb11
elliottbnewcombjr
5,991 posts
 
watching blue meters is a short lived thrill, then you will want to turn them off and 'see' the music not the meters. IOW, look around at other stuff now. btw, the meters show nothing, unless you change the setting to measure a low power range, because you rarely need much power, except when you do!

McIntosh SS will not sound, they will simply disappear, theoretically ideal, yet .... I sold mt MC2250, rated 250 wpc, actually tested accurate to 305 wpc at McIntosh Lab day at Harvey's NYC the day it was given to me.

Used for years, eh, sold, got McIntosh tube tuner/preamp, made in 1962, fantastic, into tube amp.

Yes you can change the speakers, sell them, then you will take a loss, BUT, you will need less power, use your existing amp until you pick a new LOWER power amp, i.e. LOWER cost (helps with the loss selling the speakers), AND, you will be set up to try tube amp now or in the future.
elevick
2,638 posts
 
Doubling the wattage will only get you an extra 3db.  You need about 10db to hear a perceived doubling in volume.  Macs have great headroom due to massive transformers.  I would think a 100 watt Mac should outperform your HK.
You are looking at integrateds vs power amps.  If you buy an integrated you are stuck if 100 or 200 isn't enough.  If you go with power amps, you can either biamp the speakers or bridge the amps.  My vote, go with a power amp for the versatility.  
erik_squires
16,908 posts
 
room treatment on order...


Don't do anything more until these are in place.  They change everything.

Lots of power is not important, quality is.

I'd suggest you listen for yourself, but include these three, very different sounding amps in your taste test:

  • Pass
  • Luxman
  • Ayre

Your calculation seems off. Remember that power and volts don't use the same dB equation.  Power is 10 log (Pnew/Pold) and Voltage is 20 log.  Or I got them backwards.  I'd check, but this site is free. :)

A middle of the road integrated with ~100 to 150 W will be just fine.

But seriously, get your room dialed in first.  Better sounding rooms play better at low volume and sound like you have more bass. Choosing anything now will get thrown upside down after. :)

Best,

E
eisenb11 OP
33 posts
 
@snuphy91 My room is a little smaller than yours: about 15x15x10 high. Sub is eventually on the TODO list to fill in the bottom end - but after amp and streamer upgrades. The REL looks like something along the line of what I’m consdering, also thinking about the B&W DB3D if I want to keep things "in the family"... geeze never-ending list of upgrades... what have I gotten myself into!?!?! ha ha

@elliottbnewcombjr I was kidding about the blue watt meters, just referring to them as a surrogate for the name "McIntosh"... I don’t actually intend to look at them :) So far, I’m really happy with the way the 805D3 sounds, don’t really want to get rid of it yet. Also, the $2k price bump of the larger amp wouldn’t cover the depreciation of the speakers, ha ha.

@elevick For me, I think the main deciding factor of MA5300 vs MA7200 now isn’t the +100W, but do I want to go with the autoformers or not? I almost feel that if I’m going to go Mac, I should get the Mac sound which means go autoformers... but the reviews on the MA5300 do seem to be coming in very positive. Darn COVID, wish I could side-by-side the two somewhere.

@erik_squires That’s a good point. They should be coming in near the end of the month so I’m mainly info gathering for now. Ordered a bunch of stuff - corner bass traps, some wall traps, diffusors, etc. Should be fun.


limomangus's avatar
limomangus
1,685 posts
 
Ahhhh yes a meter freak....I have 2 Carver 500mt 250 wpc.crazy nice meters.I also have a SAE 502 200 wpc.Bought used 200 for SAE and like 300 each for Carvers. 
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