I'm pretty new to this and could use some help. Working down my list of upgrades: did speakers, room treatment on order... I think next up is to replace my amp.
I'm currently using a Harman Kardon PA2000 stereo amp that I had sitting in storage. 100 WPC @ 8 Ohm. It's "OK", but it probably the weak point in my system right now.
For speakers, I picked up B&W 805D3 tabletops with stands.
88 dbSPL sensitivity, 8 ohm. They recommend 50-120W @ Ohm for the amp power on their site.
I pulled up an amplifier calculator and plugged in some numbers:
88 sBSPL, 8 ft distance, 85 dB volume w 15 dB headroom and this came out to 3W RMS w 94W peak
I have my heart set on blue watt meters so I see the following options:
1) MA5300 @ 100 WPC, no autoformers, integrated 2) MA7200 @ 200 WPC, has autoformers, integrated 3) MC302 @ 300 WPC, has autorormers, seperates
For the MA5300, I'm concerned that there isn't enough headroom. If I even get close to the 94W peak, it means that I'm pushing the amp to the max, so I'd probably be operating in an area of reduced sonic performance since it's being stressed. Is this a correct assumption?
The MA7200 looks like it'll leave plenty of headroom and it also has (for better or worse) autoformers which seems to be what puts the "mac sound" in macs.
The MC302 is just sexy as heck... but is there any realistic gain with my current set up that I would get by buying one of these? Or is it so much overkill that I am just throwing money away at this point?
This is why my #1 speaker filter is 90dB. Never buy speakers less sensitive than 90dB. Anything less is the difference between being able to drive them well with any of scores of amps with as little as 50 wpc, and being stuck with speakers that force you to try and find a good sounding 200 wpc amp. Not a lot of those around. Certainly not anything normal people can afford.
Consequently my advice would be to look for better speakers. Being on a budget I would set my filter a bit higher, at least 92dB, and preferably more. Find some you like at 95dB and then you will be able to find low watt amps very affordable, that combined with your speakers will sound a whole lot better and for a lot less money.
If you are sitting 8' from those speakers, with 100w and it is even vaguely close to a wall your peak output is 106.3 dB. That hits THX standards for output. You are fine with the 100w amp.
Also, peak output is usually at the deepest frequency. While those speakers have good bass response, they aren't going to 20hz. You would be fine with 20 really good watts as that would give you ~14.3dB of headroom at 85dB (Peak 99.3).
People get too caught up in terms of huge power numbers IMO. I run less efficient speakers with 45w and they sound extraordinary.
Never buy speakers less sensitive than 90dB. Anything less is the difference between being able to drive them well with any of scores of amps with as little as 50 wpc, and being stuck with speakers that force you to try and find a good sounding 200 wpc amp. Not a lot of those arou
Well it is true 90db should bea ideal cutoff point, But not always. I had a Jadis Orch Refer and quite comfortably pushed the Thors rated 87 db. Seas drivers at least the EXCEL line are low efficient but offer dynamics, fidelity,, Thing is you will need a tube amp that boasts hefty trans and a good transparent design. So yes, low db requires a tube amp that has power = will cost ya a bit more,,but doable on the used market.
@verdantaudio Intersting! So it sounds like between those options that the MC302 would be way overkill and I should consider either the MA5300 or MA7200 with the deciding factor really being where I want to stand on the autoformer vs no autoformer debate?
I have a Mac MA6600 integrated which has the transformers and 200wpc. The sound is quite effortless and has that great Mac sound. I would not trade it for anything. I also own the MC302 300wpc amp in another system. Since the MC302 is a power amp only, what will you use as a preamp? I haven’t heard your B&W speakers but usually, the more power, the better sound to really make them open up.
If I did do the MC302 route, my initial path would be to have no pre-amp and just output from my single source (Sonos streamer) directly. My entire music collection is digital and stored on a NAS and available to Roon, Plex, and DLNA - I primarily use Roon.
The next upgrade would have to be a pre-amp to get a decent DAC, so I’d figure something like a D150/D1100 - although I like the idea of one of the newer designs, like the C49 which provides an upgrade path of DA1 to DA2.
Once a pre-amp is in place, the plan was to replace the Sonos with another streamer that will output straight to USB (like an UltraRendu or something similar).
The new integrated amps (MA5300/MA7200) do provide a really attractive option between they knock out the amp & pre-amp upgrades at the same time, get me a decent DAC, and provide an upgrade path with the DA2.
Do you think it would be worth it for me to consider the MC302 over the integrated options considering the power requirements (or lack thereof) that seem needed to run my system?
watching blue meters is a short lived thrill, then you will want to turn them off and 'see' the music not the meters. IOW, look around at other stuff now. btw, the meters show nothing, unless you change the setting to measure a low power range, because you rarely need much power, except when you do!
McIntosh SS will not sound, they will simply disappear, theoretically ideal, yet .... I sold mt MC2250, rated 250 wpc, actually tested accurate to 305 wpc at McIntosh Lab day at Harvey's NYC the day it was given to me.
Used for years, eh, sold, got McIntosh tube tuner/preamp, made in 1962, fantastic, into tube amp.
Yes you can change the speakers, sell them, then you will take a loss, BUT, you will need less power, use your existing amp until you pick a new LOWER power amp, i.e. LOWER cost (helps with the loss selling the speakers), AND, you will be set up to try tube amp now or in the future.
Doubling the wattage will only get you an extra 3db. You need about 10db to hear a perceived doubling in volume. Macs have great headroom due to massive transformers. I would think a 100 watt Mac should outperform your HK. You are looking at integrateds vs power amps. If you buy an integrated you are stuck if 100 or 200 isn't enough. If you go with power amps, you can either biamp the speakers or bridge the amps. My vote, go with a power amp for the versatility.
Don't do anything more until these are in place. They change everything.
Lots of power is not important, quality is.
I'd suggest you listen for yourself, but include these three, very different sounding amps in your taste test:
Pass
Luxman
Ayre
Your calculation seems off. Remember that power and volts don't use the same dB equation. Power is 10 log (Pnew/Pold) and Voltage is 20 log. Or I got them backwards. I'd check, but this site is free. :)
A middle of the road integrated with ~100 to 150 W will be just fine.
But seriously, get your room dialed in first. Better sounding rooms play better at low volume and sound like you have more bass. Choosing anything now will get thrown upside down after. :)
@snuphy91 My room is a little smaller than yours: about 15x15x10 high. Sub is eventually on the TODO list to fill in the bottom end - but after amp and streamer upgrades. The REL looks like something along the line of what I’m consdering, also thinking about the B&W DB3D if I want to keep things "in the family"... geeze never-ending list of upgrades... what have I gotten myself into!?!?! ha ha
@elliottbnewcombjr I was kidding about the blue watt meters, just referring to them as a surrogate for the name "McIntosh"... I don’t actually intend to look at them :) So far, I’m really happy with the way the 805D3 sounds, don’t really want to get rid of it yet. Also, the $2k price bump of the larger amp wouldn’t cover the depreciation of the speakers, ha ha.
@elevick For me, I think the main deciding factor of MA5300 vs MA7200 now isn’t the +100W, but do I want to go with the autoformers or not? I almost feel that if I’m going to go Mac, I should get the Mac sound which means go autoformers... but the reviews on the MA5300 do seem to be coming in very positive. Darn COVID, wish I could side-by-side the two somewhere.
@erik_squires That’s a good point. They should be coming in near the end of the month so I’m mainly info gathering for now. Ordered a bunch of stuff - corner bass traps, some wall traps, diffusors, etc. Should be fun.
Ahhhh yes a meter freak....I have 2 Carver 500mt 250 wpc.crazy nice meters.I also have a SAE 502 200 wpc.Bought used 200 for SAE and like 300 each for Carvers.
90dB leaves out a LOT of great loudspeakers. Almost all ESL's, all magnetic-planars. Horns are great for PA's, not so hot for music reproduction in the home. ;-)
Get the biggest best amps you can. 300W RMS, or larger. You need the headroom, said,many times, when crescendos, drum, or guitar solos, or the song ending slam at the end does happen, you will need the headroom.
Don’t worry about speaker rating, just get minimum of 300 WPC,
my speakers are rated at 250 W, my,amps are 650W monos’ nary an issue, never clip, never over drive, or under drive, pure heaven!
People always say, all u need is 50 or 100W, not true, my music is absolutely pure, effortless, and when pushed, I get great bass, and never worry about clipping.
In my view you can never have too many watts output. Go for quality watts but get as much as you can afford. The dynamic swings will be covered. More will be more capable in terms of presenting dynamic scale realistically. No worries or limits in the future if you want to change speakers to something harder to drive (note the advice from another poster to avoid less sensitive speakers ... that’s the tail wagging the dog). Someone mentioned Pass Labs. Great amps, the X250.5 is the bomb, powerful, great sound, ... buy second hand. It’s got blue VU meters ... not green but nice (but not the retro look of the MC). The MC 100 watt amp will work for the speakers you are getting. Trust me though, don’t make the same mistake I did buying amps in the 100 watt range that are less than what the should be and not future proof.
When I made the decision to go for more power, I sold my MA5300 and went with the MC462 with the C2600 tube preamp. I also love the blue meters. I know there are a lot of Mac haters on this forum and I almost hate to post what my system is for that reason but I would say go with as much power as you can afford. You can always sent me a private message if you wish to discuss.
Most of the time, amplifiers are only using a fraction of the output that they're rated for. Take the case of amps richly biased into class A: often they never leave A to slide into AB. Up to a point, some increased headroom is good--think V8 over a straight 6. The 302 is overkill: horses for courses. BTW, B&W and Mac are often sold in the same store; is Mac what the store is pushing you towards, because you can do better for your $$?
For speakers, I picked up B&W 805D3 tabletops with stands. 88 dbSPL sensitivity, 8 ohm. They recommend 50-120W @ Ohm for the amp power on their site.
... For the MA5300, I’m concerned that there isn’t enough headroom. If I even get close to the 94W peak, it means that I’m pushing the amp to the max, so I’d probably be operating in an area of reduced sonic performance since it’s being stressed.
More significantly, IMO, you would be pushing **the speakers** to near the max. Note that B&W’s recommendation for amplifier power, stated fully, is:
50W - 120W into 8Ω on unclipped programme
Meaning that its ability to handle **continuous** power (which is how the amplifiers are rated) is certainly much less than 120 watts, at least if the speaker is to provide reasonably undistorted sonics. Which also seems consistent with the fact that it is a small (28 pound) two-way speaker having a 6.5 inch woofer.
Finally, there are undoubtedly a great many design differences contributing to sonic differences between the three McIntosh amplifiers you are considering. I would not let your decision be dominated by the presence or absence of autoformers, or by any small handful of design characteristics. I would start by researching what amplifiers others use with the same or similar speakers, and what speakers others use with these particular amplifiers.
P.S: Note also that the MA5300 has a specified dynamic headroom of 1.8 db. Which means that on the peaks of typical "unclipped programme" being played at high volume the amp should be able to provide approximately 150 watts, not just 100 watts.
In other words about 25% more power than the speaker is rated to be able to handle, even on a short-term basis. Which seems to me to be a reasonable margin.
100 watts per channel could be enough but not that particular Mac. It sounds strained at higher volumes compared to other more robust 100 WPC amps. 200 WPC should be enough, I have heard that combination and it sounds excellent, the Mac takes the edge off the diamond tweeter nicely. the 300 WPC amp would not be overkill but for your listening distance it will be more of a luxury / icing on an already very nice cake. As a lesson more power is not completely about more volume. It is about sound quality and life-like dynamics and speed at lower volume too. Think very good bass and attack at low levels. The amp makes this happen. Some people like the jump factor dynamics in high efficiency speakers - you can get this with lower efficiency and higher power. While the 7200 will be very nice, my ultimate recommendation would be a Mac tube preamp paired with their 200 WPC power amp. Boosts the spend but sounds like you have it, this would make your system golden.
Get the biggest best amps you can. 300W RMS, or larger. You need
the headroom, said,many times, when crescendos, drum, or guitar solos,
or the song ending slam at the end does happen, you will need the
headroom.
I would agree with this statement. I also have the B&W 805 D3 (previously had D2). I tested two amps side-by-side with these speakers. One set were 250 watt monoblocks and the second set was 500 watt monoblocks. The were the same product line from the same exact manufacturer. The 250 watt amps were nice, but if you listened closely, the smaller 250 watt did not have quite as much authority with bass (not quite as full bass and not quite as much slam). It was almost splitting hairs, but the difference was there. I think a 50-100 watt amp would sound even weaker (but it would still work).
You don't buy big amps for the total power. You buy them because they have huge power supply capacitance and transformers. You will get a lot more punch, slam and midrange/midbass body. The smaller amps with smaller transformers and capacitance just will not have the authority, EVEN AT LOWER VOLUMES.
The McIntosh sound is more of a mild and laid back signature. If you say the autoformers create the McIntosh sound, it could be that the autoformers are responsible for the mild/laid-back sound. Just a thought. Not arguing against McIntosh. It's entirely a personal preference.
Sensitivity Can be way over rated. I have 86 dB Vandersteen’s being driven by 40 watts of class a power. They will play loud enough to to shake the neighbors walls. Bottom line is watts per channel can become the main focus but you also have to consider the other aspects of the amp. If I had listened to all the threads I read on my amp and that it needed minimum 92 sensitivity I would have never bought the vandy’s. Everyone that has heard my system is more than satisfied if not impressed. I am very happy I rolled the dice and just went with my gut.
hi they recommend 50-120 watt amp@8 ohms that means thy don't have a power rating sensitivity 88Db @ 2' not 8' 8' will be about 82 Db if it had a power rating say 100 watts@ 8 ohms then your power amp should be 3Db higher will 200 watts @8 ohms remember the 805d-3 are good to 96Db spl and thd will be high
In general it sounds like there is no significant danger by going big (just don’t crank the dial) - I’m more concerned with having enough headroom. Given the size of my room and the sitting distance, I have a feeling that I’ll blow my ear drums out or have the police visit before I blow the speakers.
@chilli42 Based on what I’m seeing Pass looks to be a bit more than I’d like to be spending right now!
@fbgbill thanks! I’ll likely take you up on that PM offer later on as I gather more info!
@twoleftears No one is pushing me in that direction, but it’s the combination of aesthetics and quality - I do understand that I can do better for the dollars but there’s always a trade to be done. The B&Ws fall in the same boat - can do better for the dollars - but they’re still really nice speakers and I really really like the way they look. Don’t want all looks and no bite, likewise, not after all bite and no looks - aiming for a sweet spot in the trade-offs! :) @almarg that’s assuming you crank the dial, then you’ll likely blow the thing. I’m more interested in head room. Even if we assume that the speaker will blow after 120W, I’m concerned the 5300 will start to sound bad way before that because it’s pushed to the max. To use a car analogy, I’d rather be in a car with a 120 MPH top speed going 60 MPH than a car that’s rated for 60 MPH going 60 MPH... did it in high school, you’d think the thing was going to fall apart on the highway! @avanti1960 yeah, I’m leaning towards the 7200/302 for those reasons. There is a case to be made for the 302 in that I can play around with different pre-amps afterwards to upgrade without having to change out everything. In the immediate term, I don’t even need a pre-amp... I can pipe my streamer directly into the amp.
@auxinput curious, what amps were those? What are you using now with your 805D3s? @ditusa Yeah, that makes sense - with more distance, you’re going to need more DB. What would you recommend as a power range given the 805D3 specs? I’m currently giving it 100 wpc using a nothing-special amp (the Harman) and while it sounds really good, it feels like the speakers can be sounding much better. Don’t know how to verbalize it, but it feels like there is more to be had out of these speakers.
sgreg is correct, speaker sensitivity is not the most important spec when it comes to judging an amplifier and its power output. Also provided you dont clip your amps (especially if they are S.S.) you can never have too much power. In my experience, higher powered amps either S.S. or tube, sometimes dont sound as good as their lower powered brethren.
Power specification is very vague. Average music power delivered to speakers (dissipated heat) is very low, unless one listens to sinewaves (then it is 50%). When music sounds about half as loud as the music peak it is 10% of the peak power, not to mention gaps in music or soft parts. I would speculate it is only a few percent of the peak power - more for heavy orchestral pieces and less for Jazz trio. Perhaps 100W amp can deliver as much of the peak power as 200W amp, but is specified at 100W only because of the, for instance, smaller heatsinks. Both might sound the same with some types of music, like mentioned Jazz trio. According to FTC power should be measured as sinewave RMS voltage at specified frequency range and rated THD, over specified impedance for period of 5 minutes, when amplifier was preheated at 1/8 of rated power with 1kHz signal for one hour. It would imply that amplifier rated 200W has to supply this power for only 5 minutes and after that can overheat. Does it make a sense to test an amp at full power at 20kHz? This will never happen in real life. I don't often see power specified as FTC power, so power specification can be very flexible (often much worse). I found in the specification of Icepower module continuous power (40W) and FTC rated power for 0-3kHz (150W). So we have continuous, FTC and momentary powers and anything in-between. Perhaps for linear power supply amps weight can be a better specification than power?
As for the listening distance - Benchmark claims that in average room distance doesn't play role. 6dB loss for double distance applies to open space only.
Rule 13: In a home environment, the SPL at the listening position is about the same as the 1m response of the speaker in an anechoic chamber.
If a speaker has a measured output of 90 dB SPL at 1 meter when fed with one watt, you can expect about 90 dB SPL at your listening position when driving your speaker with one watt. Room reflections supplement the output of the speakers and compensate for the fact that you are more than 1 meter from your speakers. If you are outdoors, this rule does not apply. But, in a typical home listening room, the rule works reasonably well for a quick approximation.
hi the amp power no more then 150 watt amp for the b w 805d3 how big is the room what is a good spl level for you if you like the way the speakers sound take the time to match the amp to the speakers it is the only way so they sound nice to you preamp is more of the sound then the amp the speakers are the sound.50% the room is the sound 50%
@auxinput curious, what amps were those? What are you using now with your 805D3s?
The 250 watt monoblocks were Emotiva XPA-1L. The 500 watt monoblocks were Emotiva XPA-1
Currently, I’m using Emotiva XPR-1 monoblocks (1000 watt) for my front stage (left/center/right/sub). They have all been completely rebuilt / upgraded. Neotech OCC copper for all internal wiring. 24 x 10,000uf Mundorf caps for main power supply. Nichicon FG/KW for all amp boards. Upgraded WIMA film caps and KEMET film-on-foil caps for all amp boards. Furutech fuses.
Obviously I’m not anywhere using the full 1000 watts. If I crank it with a heavy bass effects movie, I can get the sub amp to about 70% (which is about 1200 watts into 4 ohm subwoofer load). But the other amps never get above 30% or so with the extreme peaks. The XPR amps have LED lighting on the front that shows how much power it’s generating (like the dials on McIntosh amps).
The more power you have the better your ability to drive worse speakers. It is better to have always more power and not use it, rather than needing more power and not having it.
If you go with Mac skip the 5300 and go for 7200. It should be more than sufficient for your speakers. Ma7200 is a complete package, an excellent DAC and pre amp all in one unit. You'll also save on cables with an integrated. Don't make your life complicated with separates.
However, I'd advise you to forget the Mac entirely and go for Luxman L-509X. Much better amp in all respects than Mac.You'll have to add a DAC, or get a nice streamer with a DAC ( aurender or lumin).
I say this and I own a two Mac amps, preamp, and av processor. I think your speakers deserve a better amp. I was also initially entranced by the blue meters and mid century modern look and bought all Mac equipment. They're not bad at all, very lush, powerful and warm sounding. But once I heard what other amps could do with my speakers, I could no longer live with Macs. I agree with auxinput, Mac is very laid back and mild.
You know what would sound even better? A tube amp. Once you hear a quality tube amp, you'll never forget that sound. I believe that's where the real audiophilia begins. What type of music do you listen to?
Interesting dilemma as I considered the MC 7200,MC 89000 and MC 302. My starting point was a NAD C 375 BEE and ultimately I went with the MC302. I believe more power provides more control for the speaker so I wouldn’t fear overkill. Your decision is more about value per dollar and for that I’d suggest you consider going with an integrated amp if your current head unit cannot do that. I have McIntosh C 2600 pre amp and MC 302 - it’s awesome and there are numerous combos at the investment level that are excellent as well. The 7200 has a DAC that is a step ip from your Sonus and the 100 watt difference from the 302 is not easily heard. As an aside, sound delivery from my system is delivered smoothly and listening sessions often are hours I duration because I don’t get any fatigue.
Learning a lot here and using your info to do follow-on research. For sure, no decision until acoustic panels arrive and go up (end of the July, early Aug?) then we’ll see where things go from there. Budget isn’t unlimited which would probably rule out some of the more exotic options (Pass labs, for example).
My initial thought is that the B&Ws are on the brighter side of things. While I’m very happy with them, I want to make sure that I don’t choose gear that makes them brighter. I want to do as much as possible with hardware (speakers, amp, treatment) before leaning on DSP for the final round of tweaks and corrections.
@auxinput thanks for that info! Sounds like too much power isn’t an issue and neither would be the bass from your experience - since most of the external subs that I’ve looked at seem to have their own class D power source... so the amp I’m looking for now is just to drive the 2 speakers. And in a room of this size - there is probably only so much power one could take before their ear drums implode.
@ei001h I’ve read very favorable things about the Luxmans. My main concern is how well will they pair with my speakers? B&W is already on the bright side of the things and it seems from reading (and videos) that the Luxmans are also a bit on the bright side - that’s one of my reasons for considering Mac. The Macs with the transformers seems to be a bit more laid back and more forward in the mid range which seems to align with a good strategy to handle the speakers. As you own both Luxman and Mac what would be your thoughts on that?
Tubes are an area where I’d like to play around in the future - a few paths for that if I went the Mac route - for example, get a 7200, then later there is the option to run a tube pre into it and bypass the built-in one essentially turning it into a 200 wpc amp. Or with the 302, obviously, you could just get different preamps for it without having to swap out the amp stage. Both options have nice growth paths.
I listen to almost all music (rock, jazz, classical, r&b, pop, rap, electronic, musicals... very little country though), but the bulk of my listening these days is focused on rock, pop, and vocal jazz. Lots of stuff from the 60s-80s right now, although it’s still fun to spin up some NiN from the 90s - forget his stuff after that! ;-)
@mrklas Curious, what speakers are you running with those? Thanks
Where did you get the idea that Luxman is bright? Current B&W are a little in your face, so something like Luxman to temper them a little would be ideal. L-507uXII or ideally L-509X.
I've listened to B&W speakers a few times and I always come away feeling they are too bright and edgy in the treble region. That said, Luxman would be a good choice for amplification as they tend to be smoooooth.
OP do not let the cult of McIntosh blind you to the hifi universe. There are a ton of amps that are good matches for B&W speakers that are just as good/better for less money than the comparable McIntosh amps... Ayre, Pass and CODA just to name a few manufacturers, even Bryston I would say. The reason to go with McIntosh is resale value, as the cult seems to have deep roots. As a fellow B&W owner (804 D3s), one thing I will agree with is the need for some power, but less measured in watts and more so measured in CURRENT. Another important consideration if you go SS is how much the amp is biased into Class A. Think about a Parasound JC5 or CODA No. 8 at around 100 amperes and the 1st 18 watts into Class A, or a Pass 250.8x with even greater Class A envelope. Just my 2 cents.
Add Vacuum Tube Audio amps from Tubes4hifi to your research list. Several options that are top notch at a decent price, and great customer service.
http://www.tubes4hifi.com/bob.htm
Hey there, I have the MC7300 I'm trying to trade for the narrow version or just unload.
But, have to say, I don't listen to my music any louder. But...I hear way more bass and it seems more well-rounded.
Like my buddy who owns a dodge hellcat. I asked him why he would need 500+ horsepower than you can't use it to its full potential on american roads. He explained its nice knowing if he wanted to, he could.
If you wanna hear B&W with Luxman, go to instagram and follow Audiovenue, lots of amps paired to your speakers, listen with headphones. It should give you some idea.
Luxman is definitely not bright. Very smooth sophisticated amplification.
Setting the bar at 90dB is cutting out 80-90% of speakers made, including an awful lot of good ones. Per hundreds of tests I have read, manufacturers ALWAYS overstate sensitivity, by up to 5dB. I have NEVER seen a test come out at more than the maker's spec!
Watts are cheap in these solid state days and there are plenty of amps that put out 400+dB.
So, don't limit your choice and don't believe manufacturers' specs.
@ei001h @twoleftears Ok... I take it back! After checking out of those videos I have to say... dang, Luxman sounds smooth on the 805D3!
It appears that those Luxmans are almost 50% more cost than the Mac gear that I’m looking at.
I believe the MA7200 is around $7k, and the L-509X is around $10k new. I’m having a hard time finding price data on used stuff, but it looks like a used L-509X may be in the price vicinity a little shy of a new MA7200?
You started this discussion indicating you really wanted McIntosh. That's fine, but keep in mind that McIntosh has a mild and laid back midrange type of sound. Very pleasing to listen to on a high resolution speaker like B&W D3, but it's not going to be as exciting and dynamic as other amps.
The Luxman that I heard is definitely not laid back. It is more of the fast high resolution and dynamic type of sound. Luxman would not be a good pairing with speakers such as Focal or Wilson. It can come across as being too thing/bright, but they should do very well on B&W.
I suppose it depends on what kind of sound you are after.
@auxinput wish there was someplace to do a real-life side-by-side. I have to admit that at least in the various Youtube and Instagram videos that the Luxman seems to pair with the 805D3s better than the Macs do...
But, at least for me, online video is good to compare overall themes - but useless in understanding what the sound is really like.
For example, last night I watched a video of my speakers paired to a Mac playing a song that I've played often - and it sounded terrible. But that song sounds much better with my "meh" amp on the same speakers - Hence the nature of beast with online videos - a recording of questionable quality (the video) of the playing of another recording (the subject of the video) ultimately being played on a device of likely even lower quality (my iPad)... :)
These speakers crave power.I have a set and would recommend no less than 150 watts if you really want them to sing.Had a Halo A21 which worked well but sounded anemic compared to the Pass.
You need to decide what type of sound you're after. You chose a highly resolving speaker and I assume you want an accurate representation without being overly romantic (highs rolled off). Luxman will give you that. Mac will also sound beautiful and will make anything sound pleasing to your ear. B&W with a diamond tweeter will need to be restrained and either Mac and Luxman will do. However, Mac will do it to a much higher degree.
Also, I recommend you stay away from lesser known, smaller and obscure amp manufacturers. It is true, the more obscure highly specialized amps could give you something special, but at the same time they're harder to maintain and may become unfixable if the dealer loses support or if manufacturer goes out of business. That is one reason Mac retains its value throughout time. They are extremely reliable, and easily serviced. Luxman has a similar reputation.
Where are you located? What brands do the dealers carry near you? By the way, you can always negotiate the price on a new amp. I usually get at least 15% off. You can do much much better on used equipment.
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