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Speaker shootout update; aggressive treble eliminating some (fairly?)

I've been trying out speakers in a complicated shoot out, both bookshelves and towers — all in my home with my gear. I'm looking for speakers obtainable up to about $4k but could go up (or down) a bit if the right thing came along.

Basic facts: All speakers were run in at least 100 hours. Room is 27 x 14 x 6.5 ceilings. Powering with all QS tubes, 60w, NOS, tube R2R dac, and decent cables. No terrible reflection points; room not overly live or dampened. REL R 328 sub available but I did most listening without it.

Recent auditions, type:

Klipsch RP 600-M (budget singleton of the group)
Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II (bookshelf, 2 way, soft dome)
Focal 936 (tower, 3 way, inverted metal)
Martin Logan Motion 60s XTi (tower, 3 way, AMT)

Coming soon:

Salk SS 6M (bookshelf, 2 way, beryllium)
Dynaudio Evoke 30's (tower, 3 way, soft dome)

Let me speak just to the problems, rather than what was good about the speakers. So far, I've found the Klipsch, Focal, and especially the Martin Logans were all too bright — forward, aggressive, "turn it down" treble.

The ML's were the most impossible to tame and hardest to listen to on more tracks. (I did a lot of hanging of towels and other dampeners and other soft things to try to see if I could bring them to heel. I varied the recordings used. Changed cables/wires. No luck.)

The Focals were occasionally too bright; their bigger problem was a bit too much energy in my small listening space. They were better when I plugged their ports with socks.

I'm looking forward to how the next two speakers sound. The Dynaudio towers, I notice, are 10 inches shorter and half the weight of the other towers; not sure what that might mean, but it could just be right size for my space. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Salks bring more detail to the treble without also being too rolled off or harsh.

Hearing is very personal for physiological and taste reasons. However, if anyone has any thoughts about why I might be experiencing some of the phenomena I am (harsh treble, especially) based on my room or gear, etc., that might help me understand factors I'm not fully appreciating. Thanks.


hilde45
decooney
2,326 posts
 
Rolled off is rolled off. Old trick. Works but you can build $500 kit speakers that do this.


Low ceilings pressure loads high frequency. Really good AMTs are magical in the right room and source/cable combos. AMT size is key too. A larger footprint amt can overwhelm if not rightsized for a given room setting.  


Finding the right size and sensitivity speakers for your amps and “that room” will be key.


The incoming 8ohm 87db Salk monitors with the right tubes and caps in the amps may get ya closer to musical without sacrificing high frequency roll off with those beryllium tweeters. Worth final room, tube, and cable tuning from there.


Your persistence will pay off and nobody has your ears or your unique low ceiling situation. Keep up the good work.
jtcf's avatar
jtcf
1,620 posts
 
Hilde I hope the Dynaudios work out for you.I had an interesting experience this past week that may interest you.I swapped in a pair of vintage Celestion Dittons with broken wire clips(winter project)for my Tektons and could hardly believe how great they sounded.They gave up a small amount of detail and dynamics being they are only the size of a shoebox.They put me back a few rows as opposed to the front and center of the Tektons.They were hooked up with lamp cord along with my subs and never sounded compressed or distorted or shrill when I cranked them up.These will go the guest room after repairs.What I learned is British monitors are wonderful with the acoustic and electric blues that I like,despite that I've always heard they couldn't possibly be.I'm borrowing a pair of newish Harbeths next week and will see what happens.
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
5,261 posts
 

@squeakI appreciate the advice to look into room acoustics. I think that will probably be something that I do AFTER I choose my speakers because I cannot change my room in time to make an altered determination about the speakers that I have for a limited trial basis.

@twoleftears I am open to that possibility and I am glad that I have the speakers here in the house. I *will* say that to my ears the speakers I have are a little bit rolled off in the treble and that is why I think I really do need to look further. The experience of listening to the other speakers showed me that there was more going on up top than initially expressed by those speakers. If I do not find something better in the treble, given the other parameters, then I will probably just be satisfied.

@decooney Thanks. It has been a great journey and the way I hear now is remarkably different than how I heard 4 months ago.

@jtcf That is a helpful experience and thank you for relating it to me. I had a great set of experiences listing to the Dynaudio speakers back in December/January (Evoke 10, 20 bookshelves) BUT... they were in an audio store and they were powered by very good and expensive amplifiers; I was also very new to listening critically. Hearing them in my house, and in a tower version, should be a good test of a bigger Dyn sound.

auxinput
2,920 posts
 
Klipsch RP 600-M.  Obviously these are lower end speakers.  The plastic horn on this speaker can have a tendency to resonate, causing a shouty type of result.  That combined with the metal woofer could result in a harsher upper midrange.

Focal 936 (tower, 3 way, inverted metal).  The previous generation titanium tweeters were always on the bright and harsh side.  In addition, the focal midrange drivers were always very fast responding and can come across thin/bright and sterile.  The Focal speakers need special attention to matching the proper amplifiers and equipment.

Martin Logan Motion 60s XTi.  I don't have direct experience with these, but these lower end ML speakers do have a tendency to sound very forward.  Once again, I don't know.


Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II (bookshelf, 2 way, soft dome).  Probably the best engineered speaker you have in this collection.  Using a scanspeak soft-dome tweeter, these are actually pretty revealing even though they are soft dome.


The Salk SS 6M could also be a very excellent choice with the Satori beryllium tweeters.  The Beryllium tweeters do not have the bright/harsh breakup that metal dome tweeters do.  However, a couple of the Satori Be tweeters do have a slight upward tilt in the 22khz area.  You'll just have to try them out to see.

I never got into Dynaudio speakers.  They never sounded good or engaging to me.  I always thought they kind of smeared the midrange and didn't have good high frequency extension.  This is my own opinion, of course.

One other speaker I would recommend trying if you can are the Revel M125 PerformaBe bookshelves.  They probably won't have the lower bass extension that the Salk do, but they have excellent tonal balance and resolution without being bright/harsh.
auxinput
2,920 posts
 
I would probably go with the Salk SS 6M.
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