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Speaker shootout update; aggressive treble eliminating some (fairly?)

I've been trying out speakers in a complicated shoot out, both bookshelves and towers — all in my home with my gear. I'm looking for speakers obtainable up to about $4k but could go up (or down) a bit if the right thing came along.

Basic facts: All speakers were run in at least 100 hours. Room is 27 x 14 x 6.5 ceilings. Powering with all QS tubes, 60w, NOS, tube R2R dac, and decent cables. No terrible reflection points; room not overly live or dampened. REL R 328 sub available but I did most listening without it.

Recent auditions, type:

Klipsch RP 600-M (budget singleton of the group)
Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II (bookshelf, 2 way, soft dome)
Focal 936 (tower, 3 way, inverted metal)
Martin Logan Motion 60s XTi (tower, 3 way, AMT)

Coming soon:

Salk SS 6M (bookshelf, 2 way, beryllium)
Dynaudio Evoke 30's (tower, 3 way, soft dome)

Let me speak just to the problems, rather than what was good about the speakers. So far, I've found the Klipsch, Focal, and especially the Martin Logans were all too bright — forward, aggressive, "turn it down" treble.

The ML's were the most impossible to tame and hardest to listen to on more tracks. (I did a lot of hanging of towels and other dampeners and other soft things to try to see if I could bring them to heel. I varied the recordings used. Changed cables/wires. No luck.)

The Focals were occasionally too bright; their bigger problem was a bit too much energy in my small listening space. They were better when I plugged their ports with socks.

I'm looking forward to how the next two speakers sound. The Dynaudio towers, I notice, are 10 inches shorter and half the weight of the other towers; not sure what that might mean, but it could just be right size for my space. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Salks bring more detail to the treble without also being too rolled off or harsh.

Hearing is very personal for physiological and taste reasons. However, if anyone has any thoughts about why I might be experiencing some of the phenomena I am (harsh treble, especially) based on my room or gear, etc., that might help me understand factors I'm not fully appreciating. Thanks.


128x128hilde45
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mapman's avatar
mapman
22,341 posts
 
With the monitors try putting them on low stands given the low ceiling, maybe with slight tilt back.

Also play with toe-in. Brightness can be tamed often by not having direct tweet exposure to ears. Also often helps with soundstage and imaging.

The Fritz will be hard to beat if you can get them set up optimally. I’d stop and work on that first if it were me.
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
4,994 posts
 
@furiouslyadrift34
Agree that ceilings likely a problem. Since I have been trying tweeters that have very little vertical dispersion (AMT) I'm now aiming to deal with what's overhead and in front. I've done the mirrors and laser pointer thing. Thanks for your reply. Very interested in Ascend Acoustics Sierra-2 line, but worry a tower is too much, regardless of tweeter type.

@audioconnection Thanks. Vandys are on my list. Just hard to get an audition. Same with many other speakers people mention.
@ djones51 I'd consider a minidsp but am hoping to keep things simple. Still, good to have a backup plan. Thanks.

@ baylinor Just measured it. 6.5 ft. Old bungalow basement. Not sure a tower can work, even with RAAL tweeters.

@audioguy85 I've not tried or auditioned wharfedales because of local availability. I'm not "fixated" on aggressive treble. I am learning. My process has been to try speakers which have a number of qualities I am looking for and one of those is detail. Reviews of what I have tried have said good things about their treble. I'm discovering that my situation possesses some factors which are making them aggressive. That said, I'm open to Wharfedales and appreciate your suggestion.

@electroslacker
I'll be curious if the specific type of beryllium tweeter in these speakers is implemented in a way that makes them bright. I've learned that certain judgments about the material of a tweeter can not tell the whole story; not only are there different ways of using beryllium, there are different ways of designing a beryllium (or any other kind) of tweeter.

@mapman
I've played with toe-in. I'll try lower stands for the monitors if they're bright. Right now, the brightness is a problem with towers. I've played a lot with the Fritz, but will again. If your suggestions can change them toward more detail in that upper end, that would be optimal, but I've had them in virtually every position, so…

decooney
2,109 posts
 
Hilde45,
A quick and dirty test to do and report back. Sounds really stupid and crude, no cost, but it works as another method for process of elimination and targeting some things with a particular speaker to get some ideas. Quick to try.

1. Put grilles on speakers if speakers came with them and note any change - at all? Did any etch, glare, or other disappear at all - report back.

Remove grilles - if they were on...now for the crude part :)

2. Cover the tweeter with one layer of thin paper towel, stick on lightly with a small piece of painters blue tape, and report back. Any etch or glare disappear?

3. Next cover the midrange with thin layer of paper towel, barely tape on with painters tape, be sure to not double-up on it, report back.

4. Do 2,3 together, both tweet and mid, report back. Does it become fuller and more musical with 2,3 together?

Just a simple test to get ideas with an overly bright tweeter/mid layout before trying any mods internally, or padding down either. I agree with prior assessments of exaggerated tweets/mids on some speakers, and the room can make it better or worse.

You can add/remove the pt back and forth as you are sitting there listening. Extrapolate from here,

Oh, note this and for AMTs, here is what Legacy does - trim buttons +/- 2db look here, old method from early days of AMTs because rooms and gear varies greatly.  
link: https://legacyaudio.com/images/made/images/uploads/products/Fronts-Mains/new_binding_posts_434_609.j...

auxinput
2,920 posts
 
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Trying not to overemphasize burn in (I read your article); just trying to do some burn in and put it out of my mind.

sorry, but I disagree here in burn in.  I have burned in so many different cables, capacitors, power cords, equipment, speakers.  They all require burn in.  Some more than others.  I know that tweeters could have a slight bright edge when they are new and will smooth out after a burn in process.  I have had some connectors and cables that sound absolutely nasty in the middle of the burn in process, but you need to be patient and wait.  Sometimes my equipment is absolutely unlistenable in certain points of burn-in and I just have to stop and wait another few days.

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