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Speaker shootout update; aggressive treble eliminating some (fairly?)

I've been trying out speakers in a complicated shoot out, both bookshelves and towers — all in my home with my gear. I'm looking for speakers obtainable up to about $4k but could go up (or down) a bit if the right thing came along.

Basic facts: All speakers were run in at least 100 hours. Room is 27 x 14 x 6.5 ceilings. Powering with all QS tubes, 60w, NOS, tube R2R dac, and decent cables. No terrible reflection points; room not overly live or dampened. REL R 328 sub available but I did most listening without it.

Recent auditions, type:

Klipsch RP 600-M (budget singleton of the group)
Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II (bookshelf, 2 way, soft dome)
Focal 936 (tower, 3 way, inverted metal)
Martin Logan Motion 60s XTi (tower, 3 way, AMT)

Coming soon:

Salk SS 6M (bookshelf, 2 way, beryllium)
Dynaudio Evoke 30's (tower, 3 way, soft dome)

Let me speak just to the problems, rather than what was good about the speakers. So far, I've found the Klipsch, Focal, and especially the Martin Logans were all too bright — forward, aggressive, "turn it down" treble.

The ML's were the most impossible to tame and hardest to listen to on more tracks. (I did a lot of hanging of towels and other dampeners and other soft things to try to see if I could bring them to heel. I varied the recordings used. Changed cables/wires. No luck.)

The Focals were occasionally too bright; their bigger problem was a bit too much energy in my small listening space. They were better when I plugged their ports with socks.

I'm looking forward to how the next two speakers sound. The Dynaudio towers, I notice, are 10 inches shorter and half the weight of the other towers; not sure what that might mean, but it could just be right size for my space. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Salks bring more detail to the treble without also being too rolled off or harsh.

Hearing is very personal for physiological and taste reasons. However, if anyone has any thoughts about why I might be experiencing some of the phenomena I am (harsh treble, especially) based on my room or gear, etc., that might help me understand factors I'm not fully appreciating. Thanks.


128x128hilde45
b_limo's avatar
b_limo
2,277 posts
 
Being sensitive to bright speakers isn’t a bad thing.  Many people like bright speakers because at first, and for shorter listening sessions they have more sizzle.  I think many manufacturers voice their speakers this way because in a short listening session at a brick and morter store, when a/b’ing them they’ll win out.

its like looking at tv’s.  If one has really vivid colors you may like it as opposed to another that is a bit duller but that vividness / brightness wears thin after an hour or so.

Speakers that are darker sounding or more laid back have a more lasting quality in my opinion.  Speakers that don’t grab your attention are usually the ones that you can listen to for hours and the good ones will lure you in.

I also think that it costs a lot of money / research to produce a speaker that is laid back but that still offers detail, thats why many manufacturers just crank up the highs and lows in order to sell speakers in b&m stores where quick a/b comparisons will be made.

I agree, and stated twice now, that 2 244 or 242 panels above your speakers will help but the speakers are the main culprit.  The rest of your system is either neutral or warm, as stated by another member earlier. 
This may all be solved once you get your Salks.  They should be the ticket!


oldhvymec
5,101 posts
 
In other words, I've put too large speakers, too high up in a room with low ceilings. I've created an acoustic challenge that makes it seem to be about the material the tweeter are made of — but that is just a small part of the equation. That is what a bunch of the really smart comments on this thread add up to, as I synthesize them.

Stick with it OP.. LOL you move that tweeter away from boundries it will work a lot better, You see ditusa post lay the JBLs on there side. Same kind of deal.

You're much better off getting to know your room, and going from there.

I know the perfect speaker for that room. The problem is finding them.
VMPS, 626R, with 40oz 6.5 wcf.  A few were made, people don't hardly sell them..

So I'm perfectly clear, I haven't heard ONE of the speakers your talking about.. But I do know what will work in that room... and BIG ain't it...
Being able to clock the tweeter, from horizontal to vertical, is an option you might want to look at too. You could tape the top half off for a test. Like a ribbon/planar with wave guides. Again a "TIP" forward, lower the speaker stand, lower your seated position, clocking the tweeter.  Don't cost much...

Regards
b_limo's avatar
b_limo
2,277 posts
 
@kenjit , do you get your shoes custom fitted to your feet?  How about your pants?  Shirt?  
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
4,994 posts
 
@oldhyvymec. Tried your suggestion by bringing in a different listening chair which lowered my ears. It helped but speakers still too big, bright. Heading in a a different direction, now...learning my room plus eliminating problematic speakers as schematized here. 
decooney
2,109 posts
 
@b_limo
..The rest of your system is either neutral or warm, as stated by another member earlier. This may all be solved once you get your Salks. They should be the ticket!

Kinda what I was thinking now too, particularly after recapping what’s been too much or not enough with all prior speakers. Next, the smaller 2-way Salk monitor with fewer drivers, "Be" neutral transparency, maybe less forward with slightly less efficiency at 87db sensitivity, in a meaty slot ported cabinet, and 8ohms will compliment the QS amps well. Hopefully hitting closer to happy middle ground for you Hilde45!
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