2. digital
  3. 159217-149317

USB sucks

USB really isn‘t the right connection between DAC and Server: depending on cables used, you get very different sound quality if the server manages to recognise the DAC at all. Some time ago I replaced my highly tuned Mac Mini (by now-defunct Mach2mini, running Puremusic via USB) with an Innuos Zenith Mk3. For starters I couldn‘t get the DAC (Antelope Zodiac Gold) and server to recognise each other, transmission from the server under USB2.0 wasn‘t possible because the server is Linux based (mind, both alledgedly support the USB2.0 standard) and when I finally got them to talk to each other (by using Artisansilvercables (pure silver) the sound quality was ho-hum. While I understand the conceptual attraction to have the master clock near the converter under asynchronous USB, the connection‘s vagaries (need for exact 90 Ohms impedance, proneness to IFR interference, need to properly shield the 5v power line, short cable runs) makes one wonder, why one wouldn‘t do better to update I2S or S/PDIF or at the higher end use AES/EBU. After more than 20 years of digital playback, the wide variety of outcomes from minor changes seems unacceptable.

Since then and after a lot of playing around I have replaced the silver cables by Uptone USPCB rigid connectors, inserted an Intona Isolator 2.0 and Schiit EITR converting USB to S/PDIF. Connection to the DAC is via Acoustic Revive DSIX powered by a Kingrex LPS.

The amount of back and forth to make all this work is mindboggling, depending on choice of USB cables (with and without separate 5V connection, short, thick and God-knows what else) is hard to believe for something called a standard interface and the differences in sound quality make any review of USB products arbitrary verging on meaningless.

Obviously S/PDIF gives you no native PCM or DSD but, hey, most recordings still are redbook, anyway.
Conversely it is plug and play although quality of the cable still matters but finally it got me the sound quality I was looking for. It may not be the future but nor should USB, given all the shortcomings. Why is the industry promoting a standard that clearly isn‘t fit for purpose?

Finally, I invite the Bits-are-bits naysayers to go on a similar journey, it just might prove to be educational.
antigrunge2
antigrunge2 OP
1,417 posts
 
@ianderson 

the Zodiac Platinum USB port isue on Linux is fixable by inserting an USB Hub. The point of the thread is the variability of outcomes on the USB connection as a function of different cables, reclocking and galvanic insulation. The range of outcomes makes reviews of USB Dacs borderline meaningless. While one might get lucky with a high quality connection out of the box, nobody can know quite how good relative to various ways of tuning that connection actually is. Not great for an industry standard
djones51
4,947 posts
 
There is a Audio Device Class for USB. 

The Audio Device Class Definition applies to all devices or functions embedded in composite devices that are used to manipulate audio, voice, and sound-related functionality. This includes both audio data (analog and digital) and the functionality that is used to directly control the audio environment, such as Volume and Tone Control. 

Don't fault the USB standard for manufacturers who fail to follow it or do so incompetently.
redlenses03
94 posts
 
...........As well as tons of variability in implemented Ethernet connections or eth cables, i2s, spdif, tos...etc...  
Because a product and or more importantly, a specific use case has an issue, doesn't fault a connection type in the broad spectrum.  Far from it. 

With all that has been learned and the advancement in USB, if its well implemented, its probably going to be the better connection in said device.
Will Ethernet connection (or maybe better yet fiber sfp) be the standard?  Maybe and that would be great.  However, there aren't many GREAT Ethernet DAC's available though as compared to USB. 
craig
84 posts
 
to  rixthetrick:

I note and appreciate your expertise with respect to USB cables. I also noted that you used to make curious' cables. I am currently trying to find a better usb cable (than the one that came with the Chord Dave Dac). I appreciate good articulation, soundstage and correct timbre or tonal character of instruments (listen to classical and jazz). Would you please offer your opinion on which USB would best meet my criteria. The rest of my system consists of Rogue Audio's stereo 100 amp, RP-7 preamp, nordost valhalla cables and sonus faber amati tradition speakers.

Am I incorrect to assume that separating the power "lines" from the data "lines" is important?
Does the use or copper vs silver vs copper plated with silver make a tonal difference?
What do you "look for" in the cable construction to identify the quality and sound characteristic?

THANK YOU!!
craig
Post removed 
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