What a rich discussion ! Thank you, frogman and mahgister, for offering your deeply-considered perspectives. I'm grateful for the opportunity to participate in such a dialogue. Thanks, frogman, for the clarification re: Miles and technique.
Up until now, I've only participated in gear forums -- most often when seeking help with system upgrades. I didn't realize what I'd been missing, here, in the music forum.
Frogman: I recognize there've been plenty of times when I've given in to the impulse to reject that which does not yield pleasure imediately. I also believe what mahgister asserts-- that "a learning experience is necessary but cannot be forced nor imposed." Taken together, your collective com-ments would appear to suggest this "education" process requires a somewhat delicate balance of "effort" and "allowing".
For me, it seems one limiting aspect involves tension. Too much tension and I feel assaulted; too little and my attention wanders. This appears to occur on an energetic, rather than an intellectual or emotional level. For example, I enjoy dissonance/atonality up to a point but beyond that point, it evokes distress and a sort of spontaneous disengagment occurs, perhaps driven by some primitive drive for self-preservation in the face of what is perceived as a "danger".
Saxophonist David Murray is a good example. I've heard certain recordings in which he generally plays in a zone that moves from a degree of dissonance I can just tolerate into degrees that feel (to me) overwhelmingly off-putting. On other recordings (the ones I own), he takes more of a middle ground, moving from quite consonant playing into degrees of dissonance I can enjoy. He continually moves back and forth from one to the other, and in so doing, dissonance enhances consonance and vice versa. The yin/yang symbol comes to mind, here.
If pitch is one means by which tension operates, then rhythm is another, no? It involves far more than the beats-per-minute or time signature. What sort of "feel" or "energy" is being expressed in a player's execution of a given rhythm makes a big difference.
I could go on, but I'll restrain myself.
Up until now, I've only participated in gear forums -- most often when seeking help with system upgrades. I didn't realize what I'd been missing, here, in the music forum.
Frogman: I recognize there've been plenty of times when I've given in to the impulse to reject that which does not yield pleasure imediately. I also believe what mahgister asserts-- that "a learning experience is necessary but cannot be forced nor imposed." Taken together, your collective com-ments would appear to suggest this "education" process requires a somewhat delicate balance of "effort" and "allowing".
For me, it seems one limiting aspect involves tension. Too much tension and I feel assaulted; too little and my attention wanders. This appears to occur on an energetic, rather than an intellectual or emotional level. For example, I enjoy dissonance/atonality up to a point but beyond that point, it evokes distress and a sort of spontaneous disengagment occurs, perhaps driven by some primitive drive for self-preservation in the face of what is perceived as a "danger".
Saxophonist David Murray is a good example. I've heard certain recordings in which he generally plays in a zone that moves from a degree of dissonance I can just tolerate into degrees that feel (to me) overwhelmingly off-putting. On other recordings (the ones I own), he takes more of a middle ground, moving from quite consonant playing into degrees of dissonance I can enjoy. He continually moves back and forth from one to the other, and in so doing, dissonance enhances consonance and vice versa. The yin/yang symbol comes to mind, here.
If pitch is one means by which tension operates, then rhythm is another, no? It involves far more than the beats-per-minute or time signature. What sort of "feel" or "energy" is being expressed in a player's execution of a given rhythm makes a big difference.
I could go on, but I'll restrain myself.