If you don't have a wide sweet spot, are you really an audiophile?


Hi, it’s me, professional audio troll. I’ve been thinking about something as my new home listening room comes together:

The glory of having a wide sweet spot.

We focus far too much on the dentist chair type of listener experience. A sound which is truly superb only in one location. Then we try to optimize everything exactly in that virtual shoebox we keep our heads in. How many of us look for and optimize our listening experience to have a wide sweet spot instead?

I am reminded of listening to the Magico S1 Mk II speakers. While not flawless one thing they do exceptionally well is, in a good room, provide a very good, stable stereo image across almost any reasonable listening location. Revel’s also do this. There’s no sudden feeling of the image clicking when you are exactly equidistant from the two speakers. The image is good and very stable. Even directly in front of one speaker you can still get a sense of what is in the center and opposite sides. You don’t really notice a loss of focus when off axis like you can in so many setups.

Compare and contrast this with the opposite extreme, Sanders' ESL’s, which are OK off axis but when you are sitting in the right spot you suddenly feel like you are wearing headphones. The situation is very binary. You are either in the sweet spot or you are not.

From now on I’m declaring that I’m going all-in on wide-sweet spot listening. Being able to relax on one side of the couch or another, or meander around the house while enjoying great sounding music is a luxury we should all attempt to recreate.
erik_squires
I agree that if you arrange the speaker and room to obtain a wide area with some stereo imaging, you will compromise the imaging at the ideal spot in that area. If you utilize the extreme toe-in described above to trade off cues for loudness against early and late timing of arrival, you are presenting the ear/brain with conflicting cues that may may create a hazy picture or maybe fatiguing to resolve. Also, location is not merely determined by timing and intensity of the signal. When sound arrives at your head it hits both ears, and with some of the sound hitting one side diffracting around the head to also hit the other side. This changes timing, phase and the spectral content (frequency response) and these are also cues that the brain detects.

You can get a Chesky Test CD that has some very interesting computer generated signals that exploit these properties to create a signal that seems to create images that both extend beyond the speaker position and appear to rise up from the speaker and move forward until the image is almost overhead. The illusion is hurt by nearby reflections, so these signals (scratching sounds) are used to help you locate trouble with room interactions. They also don’t work very well when one is not in the extremely narrow, ideal, sweet spot.


Thanks this is very well said and explain my point about the necessary acoustical settings in the imaging perception....This is also my exact experience in setting my room for imaging...


I will only add here what i said before, reaching better timbre perception ask for more precise or complex tuning than just imaging... The timbre"envelope" is a complex experience to recreate...It is the reason why i think audiophile must put their attention on the "timbre" perception...It is also more difficult to assess the presence of naturalness of "timbre" than just passing a test to assess the presence of imaging.... For imaging the test is about spatial experience, not for timbre perception... Then in my experience,one encompass the other in the sets of acousticals precise controls and treatment we must set in place...


By the way i succeeded to create a good imaging for 2 spots in my room.... The better for imaging is near field at 3 feet from speakers... The better for timbre perception is regular listening in my room at 8 feet from speakers...But the 2 locations are very good even if very different from one another, very good on imaging and timbre account...I cannot chose one over the other.... 😊
In nearfield it is so good imaging with a good timbre, i trash my 7 headphones in a drawer....In regular position the timbre is so natural with a good imaging, i decide to use no more any headphones....

Nearfield best any headphone experience i had; regular position of listening is more akin to a lived event and exceed my headphones possibilities....

I begin my audio journey 7 years ago with headphones including 2 Stax,one hybrid, 2 magneplanars, 2 dynamics one, because the speakers gear was not on par at all with them....Even my actual speakers bought before my 2 years acoustical room settings journey weere not at all so refine like they are now......Then it was acoustical controls the key not my choice of speakers..... I was prefering hedphones 2 years ago, it is the complete opposite now....😁😊😎😊


Acoustic controls could often be, or generally, more powerful impact than the upgrade of any piece of gear....Imagine the controls over the 3 embeddings working dimensions together....

My best to you
With my Pioneer S-1ex I can move them further away and wider apart for a wider sweet spot. Out into the room and closer together and sounds like wearing high end head phones but the sweet spot narrows considerably. I prefer the latter. 
I'd like to push back a little bit against the idea of a speaker with a wide sweet spot not being great in the middle.

Let's take 3 common models, the Magico S1 Mk II, Revels and modern Wilsons.

They all have great imaging in the center spot, but the Wilson's dont do as well off axis.
I think this blows out the idea that you can only get a great sweet spot with a narrow one.
Hahahhhaha
what ?

 Tweeters give the floating music thing. 
    No, wait what was thos thread about. N!

nvrmind. 

 Wait, what.  ??
pretty much all my field recordings are simple two microphone gigs, piano the exception. Multi track in the studio, well those are not references, just flavors we like. i am not going to play your argument game, too many neat acoustic musical events to enjoy in reverberant space.....