Synergistic calls out Audioholics

anton_stepichev31 posts04-15-2021 10:51am

@phasemonger
“This paper approaches auditory analysis from the standpoint of sound production. It argues that although air vibration produces sound, sound is not air vibration; and that exploitation of features of air vibration can hardly (if ever) lead to accurate understanding of the principle of the auditory mechanism in speech or music perception.”

phrasemonger, thank you for the information!Here is a direct link to the article - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267327268_The_Body-Image_Theory_of_Sound_An_Ecological_Appr...

So scientists don’t understand what sound is, just as they don’t understand what electricity is. This obviously follows from this article. Those who are sure that everything can be measured, and everything immeasurable is just snake oil should read the article carefully.

Thanks to anton_stepichev and to phasemonger...

I just ordered the book about sounds hearing... I am also interested by linguistic and phonology ....Then two birds with one stone...The author of this article wrote also about speech perception of tone in the yoruba language... Speech perception and musical perception are linked by evolution.... It will be interesting reads....I like books perhaps  more than music.....It was my work to advise how to read....

I will read it waiting prof answers to my posts..... 😁😊

But it is more easy to attack cables customers here they are easy targets, than reply to sound arguments....

In psychoacoustic science "measurement explain all" make no sense....I even doubt that he understand that....

Audio experience is for us a psychoacoustic phenomena and experience and experiment first and last,  and is not MAINLY an electrical design property easy to deduce from dials readings with some measuring apparatus...

Then distrusting hearing ability to learn in a set of audio listenings  experiments and promoting instead  blind test is ridiculous like it is ridiculous  to buy a "tweaks" because his marketing publicity advocate quantum effects....

Stupidity has many faces....But many see it with only one face.... It is the Bible straw and beam story.....

@prof  
I did not make the diamond analogy, you did.  A diamond has intrinsic value as a gemstone, so if somebody sold a rock as a diamond that is clearly fraud and a crime.  Audiophile cables and fuses are sold to improve the sound of the Audiophile's system.  These items are in fact cables and fuses so there is no fraud wrt what they are.  The value is dependent on what the listener hears....i.e., what makes them happy. 

As you say, "snake oil is a euphemism for deceptive marketing."  That opens a huge door covering many products and industries.  However, a fuse is still a fuse and a cable still a cable.    Even if the SR stuff makes no measurable difference, cannot be selected in blind listening tests, and costs a fraction of the selling price to build, - if the buyer/user perceives the advertised level of improvement then so what?  Does that validate the marketing?  Maybe not, who knows?

Would I pay their prices for cables or fuses - no way.  Do I believe the value to me in sonic improvements to my system would justify the prices - not in my world.  Do I believe in the seemingly weird science and technology they use to justify the performance of the tweaky products they sell - nope.  However, I do not begrudge those who do believe in the value and want to spend the money. 

On the other side of the coin, I also appreciate the folks like Gene who present opposing viewpoints and especially when they make technical arguments supported with measurements.  Amir Majidimehr over at Audio Science Review provides measurements and has a way of reporting facts as he believes them to be, without judging the product or manufacturer.  That is the great thing about free speech and free enterprise, we do our research and vote with our wallets - nobody can make me pay for Ted's Ferrari.  

@djones
Interesting  re: FDA. 
It does have some curious responses to things at times. 
I heard a comedian on the radio, part of his routine was a bit where he suggested that all warning labels should be removed from everything, and those still alive after three years, deserves to be here. 
 https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/food/5642404/are-kinder-joy-eggs-banned-in-the-us/

nonoise,

To hear some say that they’ve never tried a product and then go onto compare it with homeopathic products and the like is silly. SR products are out there for the sampling.

Homeopathic remedies are out there for sampling too.

Do the anecdotal reports of users entail that claims for how the homeopathic pills work are true? Is that really good enough? If so, I guess you simply reject science and it's methods, at least for medicine. But if cognitive bias plays a role in why people think medically inner substances change their disease status, why could similar bias not play a role in evaluating audio?(It does). Please understand: asking if there is a certain type of evidence for a claim is NOT the same as saying the claim is not true. I’d hope such distinctions wouldn’t actually have to be pointed out, but it seems required dishearteningly often in these conversations.

but that doesn’t seem to meet the ever changing goalposts as now they want scientific documentation before they even consider listening to it?
That’s what’s called dealing in bad faith.

Well, that’s interesting. Ted Denny is telling us his products produce measurable results, and is even offering to pay to have his products measured as demonstration. I say kudos to Ted! Now there is something wrong with the desire to demonstrate a product’s objective performance via measurements? Are you against Denny’s efforts to show measurable results for his products? If so, why?

When someone as steeped in audio who should have easy access to what they claim doesn’t work (what with all their connections in the field) refuses to even listen to it speaks volumes to their inauthentic stance.

Can you show me where I have claimed SR’s products don’t work?Or are you making things up? Again.


(Hint: I haven’t - look at my first post on the subject).

Oh yeah children choking to death because their parents are dumber than rocks is freaking hilarious. I heard a comedian on the radio....