The Placebo Effect

Mahgister, the first thing a piano tuner pulls out is a tuning fork. The tuning fork is his reference and yes, from there the rest is by ear.

Perhaps the problem we have is that we have no reference to compare our systems to and never will. What does a band sound like in your living room? Are you even interested in that? I would think most of us would be more interested in "hearing" the venue the band was at. There are obviously systems that seem to sound more realistic and if we were listening as a group to such a system I would bet we would all agree that it was a fine sounding rig. Based of what? It seems what we usually want to "hear" coming out of a system is quite surrealistic and based on what we expect in our imaginations to "hear." Imagination. An image in our brains, a quasi electrical event which varies from one of us to the next and changes based on the emotional state of that individual. I have noticed in myself that the same system can sound different based on god knows what, my emotional state maybe? I certainly do not seem to have expectation bias. I just hooked up a brand new set of speakers and was very disappointed.  After working for hours everything just sounded worse. I had to put it away, give myself a break. After three weeks and another $500 I think I can get back to enjoying music again. But, true audiophiles are never happy with their systems because in their imagination they can always sound better. 

The placebo effect is definitely a thing and it most definitely applies to a lot of the decision making applied to high end audio. If you think it sounds better, then it simply must be better. 

Since so much audio is about subjective perception, I don’t know that the placebo effect is a negative when brought to bear here.

Don’t believe a word of it, mahgister. I had a piano one time and when the tuner came the first thing he pulled out was a sandwich. His little tool box opened up to reveal a tray, with fresh lettuce, tomato, sliced dill pickles, salt and pepper. As he carefully added each ingredient and neatly sliced the sandwich into perfect little wedges he told me you know, you can never really tune a piano, but you can tuna sandwich.

Mahgister, the first thing a piano tuner pulls out is a tuning fork. The tuning fork is his reference and yes, from there the rest is by ear.

The room is tuned unlike the piano with the feedback of a large bandwith  MARKED OUT by asymmetrical  Helmholtz resonators near the tweeter and bass driver  and coming from tweeters of one speaker and bass driver of the other speaker to marked out each wavefront for each ear respectively.... This relatively large bandwith is not a frequency tone like with a fork but a PITCH PLAYING TIMBRE when music play for my ears.....

Perhaps the problem we have is that we have no reference to compare our systems to and never will. What does a band sound like in your living room?

I do know how a guitar a piano or a voice must sound like.... If you get this right the rest comes like beads on a string....Aynway we cannot have perfection but an optimal reasult is very possible... I did it...

An image in our brains, a quasi electrical event which varies from one of us to the next and changes based on the emotional state of that individual. I have noticed in myself that the same system can sound different based on god knows what, my emotional state maybe?

I lived through the same experience than you but in the period of  time BEFORE my system was optimally set.... I go from a mood swing where things were upgraded and i was pleased, but nothing being optimal, i depressed again, and the cycles goes on... TILL an optimal S.Q. was reached with the audio system limitations i own....
Now i am not depressed at all dor many months because i have reach the optimal limit of my system using acoustic....

i had  controlled for the better ALL acoustic features till they are in place like a puzzles pieces fitting together... It is fun and ask only for listening experiments....

 After working for hours everything just sounded worse. I had to put it away, give myself a break. After three weeks and another $500 I think I can get back to enjoying music again. But, true audiophiles are never happy with their systems because in their imagination they can always sound better.

It is not imagination that play games on you, it is acoustic problem: How to create a natural timbre experience, a very precise imaging, a large soundstage, a listener envelopment experience coupled with good sound width ?

I will never try that playing with a set of frequencies on a computer to adjust all these factors one frequency at a times and in a linear way... It is impossible task for most ears if not all...

Like i said electronic equalization is useful to fine tune the speakers in relation to the room, but i will try it now AFTER my room is already optimally passively treated and activelly controlled.... Now if i use the electronic equalizer i dont doubt that my relation speakers/room will be upgraded a bit...And i will only have to correct my resonators after that to adjust to the new situation....

But the huge improvement cannot come from an electronic equalizer  it is only the cherry on the cake, it is not and could not be the acoustical cake.... Simple: two ears feedback  dont work like a SINGLE  microphone feedback....

 I apologize for my rude answers sometimes...

No personal grunt against you....


 My best to you....

The placebo effect is definitely a thing and it most definitely applies to a lot of the decision making applied to high end audio.

Every perception is constituted by the brain with habit and bias, with an history, with fear and hope, then placebo is creative part of any perception...

But those who oppose placebo effect to explain any audible experience in audio remind me of those who explain walking by the different types of shoes, sandals,boots..... Hearing is not placebo mainly, and walking is not shoes mainly ...

But nobody walk the same in big boot and loose sandal....

Nobody hear the same looking at a 100000 bucks system and before a 1000 bucks one... Same Ears not the same hearing.... Same feet but not the same walking... placebo and look and style count for much in the 2 cases.... 😊😁

Then opposing placebo against any audible experience is not even wrong.... Most of the times it is simply beside the point...

It is only a weapon for the children in the "skeptic scientism boy club" to use against audiophiles....it explain nothing most of the times save very small borderline audible difference....

You cannot create a top audio experience or experiment with placebo effect ONLY.....Save if you use market hypnosis method for sure but it is another story.... I never bought upgrade anyway.... I prefer homemade embeddings controls....


My best to you....