Sell Me Your Women, Your Children, Your Vintage Turntable...


Ok I’m trying to understand the appeal of buying something like an old Garrard 301 or an elderly Technics all trussed up in a shiny new plinth, versus something manufactured in the 21st century by people not wearing clogs.

Surely modern gear has to perform better, dollar for dollar? It isn’t like these restored Garrards are exactly cheap, i was looking at one for almost $11k yesterday on Reverb. The internals looked like something out of a Meccano set.
 I ought to be more in tune with the past, I’m almost 60 and wear bell bottoms, but the style of the older TTs just doesn’t do it for me. Now then, my Dr. Feickert Volare had a look that was hardly futuristic, but that’s about as retro as I’d prefer to go.
All that said... I will buy one of these old buggers if it genuinely elevates performance. 
With $10k available for table and arm, on the new or used market, how would you splash the cash?

Rooze 
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1 Amazon Grand Referenz / Moerch DP 8

2 SME 20/12 / SME 312S

3 Dr. Feikert Woodpecker / Kuzma Stogi S 12"

4 Garrard 301 turntable with Ortofon AS-219 12” Custom Arm Fully Restored By CTC

Ok then. Lots of opinions as one would expect. Now it’s time to cough-up the cookie dough. Pick one based on anticipated sound quality, or, if it’s some other factor influencing your decision, state what the reason is.

No additions to the list! Though I may grant you a better arm on the Garrard just to level the playing field a bit.


Idler drive advantage is considered to be in the area of maintenance of inertial mass and motion under peak deceleration due to high levels of instantaneous deceleration.

Or, to not lose the microstabilty stability of inertial motion in those microsecond level deceleration drags from the stylus’s lateral deflections.It’s one of the reasons we like record clamps. Where the micro drag in transient peaks in the rotating plane is reduced.

this is important but not really looked at when most people talk about turntables. We knew about it back in the early 90’s at least (when I first looked at it, or found mention, anyway...), when we heard about how this particular form of motional stability ’slip’ could, on some turntables...would actually amount to a measurable partial rotation (total of number of rotations) in the playing of a highly modulated record side.

Since we ear via those transient peaks, almost exclusively and don’t actually hear the rest of the signal, then this small area of micro drag in this LP playback sytem, well, this becomes important. Core. The whole ball of wax.

One way to stabilize such a system in that area of analysis... is to utilize a high mass positive torque locked system with high inertial mass in the microsecond level of stabilization. thus a solid lock rim drive with a high spinning mass/high inertial mass motor connected to said rim drive.

Some transmission designs with complex gear sets with small idlers and the like are designed that way for for this exact sort of reason.To damp out micro deviations and to create continual positive lock across multiple conditions of draw. See videos of the massive NASA crawlers and their high speed spinning masses that help damp out micro deviations in motion and drive. The top of those Saturn V rocket was very far away and highly leveraged.. and the crawler must be incredibly stable across all four track sets... so they fell back on known mechanical solutions for achieving stability in the critical ways where such stability is required.

Re the design and build and execution of a turntable, one has to think if it as being ’first, you have to figure out where things actually have meaning or count, and then figure out what that means, how to measure it, and then circle such a thing back to the design and build’.

It’s quite likely why these 100kg multiple platter gigantic S100k turntables are considered to be some of the best around (yes i know some are counter rotating).

Thus we can maybe see our way to considering that it really is about maintenance of a state of low micro-cogging of the speed accuracy, in the microsecond-to-microsecond considerations area. It’s why we see turntables with outer platter rim belts and three motors. And so on.

Essentially, if one was to measure the speed of a platter, at lets say, a rate of a million samples a second, with the measuring system being able to actually delineate such an attempt, with low distortion,..and commit such measuring with a low mass platter and weak motor..that the resulting deviation from microsecond considered speed accuracy (and maintenance), would probably look exactly like the transients that are printed into the record.

Where that measurement wiggle or trace.. would represent the dynamic accuracy lost. With dynamic accuracy being critical to the human hearing system, so it would be heard.

Which leads you right back to rim drive, and how it is done in these older designs.

I’m not saying that this is all correct thinking ....but it generally fits all the data at hand. That this set of points in analysis fits all the data at hand (anecdotal and in measurement, theory, etc) in a positive way, and also leaves paths for proofing it.

And to spoil the moment, a bit, yes all that sort of thinking went into our inexpensive (for what it is capable of) MM cart we are selling. All that was considered -and much more. Dynamically, it very much delineates micro and macro.

(I had mentioned all of this above re the idler drive...in a spur of the moment analysis, at an audio show (circa approx 2010) to Art Dudley, when he had just gotten into Idler drive turntables...and he was musing on the why and what he heard in them...as an explanation of the possible reasons behind the 'why' of what people felt they heard in such rim drive turntables.)
Most of your modern 'tables will be rusting in the trash heap when my Garrard 401 is still playing tunes for my great-grandkids.
I have not heard the Amazon so no comment on that.

I owned a SME 10 and compared it directly to my Garrard 301 which had a Ortofon RS 309 D tonearm. The Garrard was easily the winner.

Since then I made some improvements to the Garrard 301. The improvements include an Ikeda tonearm, Audio Silente idler wheel, and Shindo platter/bearing system.

I have no doubt that I would prefer it to the SME 20, which is a fine turntable.

I have heard the Dr. Feikert many times, although not in direct comparison to the Garrard 301, and prefer the Garrard.301.

I will be interested to hear which turntable you select.

Jim Perry
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