What are we going to do about Tele 12AU7 prices

Other ECC82’s I’ve disliked for pretty much the same reason(s) I disliked Telefunken smooth/ribbed plate EC82’s in my preamp are...

- early Silver plate EI’s
- 60’s/70’s Tungsram (various)

Hope this helps.

DeKay

I like the new  Mullard 12AU7  great prices full sound.   But every amp and preamp brand is different.  I would ask who is using what tubes in your same equipment for a piece of better information on performance. 

@ghasley, This brings up a question I had previously regarding accessories provided by equipment manufacturers.  I would think that an audio equipment manufacturer would pair their equipment with tubes or power cords that sound great with that equipment . . that they know their equipment better than anyone and sample different accessory items to come up with what they think sounds best.  

Schist obviously thinks this way, as in the brochure that comes with the Freya+, they recommend using the plain power cord they supply, as it doesn’t make sense to them that a fancy power cord is going to make a difference when they consider all the contractor-grade wire supplying power in the walls of your house (of course, I swapped in a fancy power cord, just in case!)

So, wouldn’t the tubes provided with the equipment be ones that the manufacturer thinks are pretty good? For the relatively low cost of the Freya+, they could include other, more costly tubes and charge a few hundreds bucks extra, and people would pay that.  Right? 

@bob540


You are correct.

So, wouldn’t the tubes provided with the equipment be ones that the manufacturer thinks are pretty good? For the relatively low cost of the Freya+, they could include other, more costly tubes and charge a few hundreds bucks extra, and people would pay that. Right?

Many manufacturers do this very thing. In fact, Schiit used to do this…they offered the Freya with a base level tube set and an unpgraded tube set for an extra fee. At least in Schiit’s case, they are manufacturing to a price point and a basic performance goal. Their business model isn’t to make an all out assault on the state of the art, add up the cost, calculate a profit margin and then set the price. In many cases it would appear that they determine a function, determine a pricepoint and then finalize the design of their offering.

Manufacturers also must consider consistency across their desired product run. For knstance, Audio Note may desire to produce 1,000 units of the XYZ integrated over a 10 year period. Maybe it has 4 XYZ tubes inside so they must stockpile or have access to 4,000 XYZ tubes plus, say, another 5,000 to cover warranties and retubes. So, when speccing the tube they need to spec where they can access 9-10,000 of this type type. Bespoke manufacturers like Shindo or Kondo might do limited runs of 20 pieces which reduces considerably the tube stockpile required. I would venture to guess that Schiit has no plan to produce anything remotely approching a small batch of anything. If they could sell 100,000 Freyas they would. Therefore, they will always spec their gear with the widest production of tube types to ensure product consistency. No serious manufacturer is going to spec a large batch product with an extremely limited tube as in rarer NOS varietals.

Rgearding power cords, if you are a manufacturer, there are too many variables to consider. For instance, in my home with dedicated circuits, a power cord may not need to solve the power problems that might exist in someone elses home. Some manufacturers do ship with upgraded cords (Aqua) while others engineer and voice their products to a specific cord (Shindo). Manufacturers who sell through a retail channel may also recognize that their dealer network is going to sell and pair their own power cord recommendations because that is a material part of their retail business model. Talk to a competent electronics manufacturer and they will shrug their shoulders in many cases about the efficacy of aftermarket wire/cable. I use them anyway because I’ve gulped the coolaid but the guys at Schiit call BS on alot of the high end voodoo.

So, wouldn’t the tubes provided with the equipment be ones that the manufacturer thinks are pretty good? 

Yes but you can do better than pretty good.  Whether its worth the cost is up to you.

For the relatively low cost of the Freya+, they could include other, more costly tubes and charge a few hundreds bucks extra, and people would pay that.  Right?

 Schitt is about keeping costs down.  It is important to them that they not raise the price by a few hundred bucks for any part.