Has anybody heard the new Nagra CD Player?

ooohhh coool, a fight!
I can see this one getting messy. At least I got a front row seat!

"03-26-07: Aplhifi
Downloaded, ripped and recorded music still sounds best when burned to a CD-R and played on a dedicated CD player/Transport. The CDs may disappear but the CD-Rs will not."

Sigh.....This is not only the most incredibly incorrect thing I have read, but I am now dumber from having read it. Kiddin...I just said that to make T-bone laugh.

You are incorrect though..And I would first ask you to support your statement with some sort of fact..Why are CD-Rs any different than a CD you buy from the store? The fact is, a HDD and CD are the ultimately the same thing, platter-type storage for a bunch of 0's and 1's. And and music ripped to a HDD lossless (a 1 to 1 file) is the exact same thing as a CD, except you can store alot more on a HDD. There are however still variances in recordings. Only negative with an HDD is they can/will eventually fail on you-which is why you back up.

The issue on sound quality is less about the medium though, than it is the actual DAC used to convert the 0s and 1s back to Analog. In the case of what I mentioned (Crimson) that converter is AMAZING, only thing different, USB DAC's are simply converting from a HDD not a CD-which is as I explained the same thing. Also keep in mind, the transport in a USB DAC is well.....Not there! And the transport is one of the essential pieces of a CD player that ads considerably to the price of any player at this level. CD players like the Nagra, have an excellent DACs, and AMAZING transports-at a price. So....If anyone were to agree with my predictions/assumptions, spending money on a high-priced CD player right now may not be a long-term decision for you.

My point is simply that in the grand scheme of digital media, the CD may eventually be looked upon as nothing more than a transitional medium we used for a while since an HDD provides the same, if not better quality in USD DAC applications..And I haven't even mentioned the convenience of HDD. And it is not accurate to compare a CD being replaced by HDD to CD replacing vinyl since one is true Analog and one is true digital. CD and HDD are both digital media, therefore can be compared head to head-follow?? Therein lies some of the reason vinyl always hung around over the years.

So since CD's like HDD are digital, require conversion, a CD player IMO is no longer the best way to do that. USB however, being bi-directional adresses all the inherent problems of jitter & SPDIF which was never designed to do what we do with it in HIFI. There are no timing issues with USB...Do I hear an applause?? Finally!!!!

USB DAC's in general make too much sense not to take a hard look at them and Gordon Rankinss DAC's are the absolute pinnacle in this category. I personally have put mine against a few of the ridiculously expensive players and think the sound is always better with Wavelength USB.

And again, I haven't even mentioned the convenience of accessing music from an HDD/Computer. Cd's?????? Never heard of em. : )

Yes but the burning question is, to any of your ears.... Is the Wavelength Crimson + PC at circa $11k+ better sounding than the Nagra, also at $11k+?

Has anyone heard either?

My opinion is based on number of experiments with computer based audio. The ultimate test for me is when vinyl is recorded to a PC, both to HDD or internal Compact Flash memory drive. Sampling rate is 96/24 or 192/24. Then using the same DAC, vinyl setup and associated equipment, the sound quality is compared between:

1. Vinyl in the pure analog domain.

2. Vinyl being just converted to digital.

3. Vinyl recorded to CF or HDD and played directly from the HDD or CF drives.

4. Vinyl recorded to CF or HDD, burned to DVD-A and played on a dedicated digital transport.

For some reason, #3 does not sound nearly as good as #1, 2 and 4 while there is hardly any difference between #1, 2 and 4.

This was done using heavily upgraded 67 bit audio card in the PC feeding the external DAC through S/PDIF connection. The reason why #3 didn’t sound as good is NOT the S/PDIF connection since #1 and #2 sounded the same.

Wavelab and Disc Welder were used for the REC/PB/Burn processes.

Few local audiophiles witnessed the experiment and agreed to the above results.

There are many reasons why #3 did not sound as good but I’d rather not discuss them here.

So, that is my truth.

Regards,
Alex

Good question Kamil....I have not heard the Crimson, yet....It is just beginning to trickle out there to people now. There is a guy, Splaskin I believe who has one, loves it. I have heard the Nagra though, and I have heard more than one of the Wavelength pieces, and without making a direct a/b comparison I would say the Crimson would sound much better. The reason I say this is because the pieces I have owned Brick and Cosecant, sounded better to me. Especially Cosecant. But beauty is in the ear of the beholder. : )

The price of a Crimson is $7500, plus $1100 (Maximum) for a PC, preferably a MAC. I say a MAC because I fiddled with a Windows PC first and once I went to the MAC the difference was night and day. Mac's have MUCH better control over thier drivers in sound better. So you are still at a considerably lower priced then the Nagra, with a convenience factor that you can't put a number on. And a new MAC computer to toy with as well!