Acoustic treatment and acoustic mechanical control over gear upgrade for improvement


«NO speaker can beat the room»... I dont remember where i read these words coming from the mouth of an acoustician....😁😊

No speakers at any cost will beat, by their upgrading power ALONE, over another good speakers we owned before it, the power of acoustic control over them two...

 

 

 

 

Here are these 6 aspects of acoustic control parameters in a room i experimented with :

1 -Balance between absorbing surfaces,

2 -Reflecting one,

3 -Diffusive one....

This was "classical" passive material treatment of a room...

Now these 3 new other factors are related to my concept of the mechanical active control of a room ( what i called a mechanical equalizer):

4-control over reverberation time and timing of the wavefronts by using reflecting devices at the right spot...( the great advantage of a small room is the possibility to control reverberation time and timing in a positive way, in a way that amphiteater or great hall could not so easily, making speakers/room synergy better)

5- control over the distribution of the pressure zones with a grid of H.R from one speaker to the other around the room...And with some other devices...

6- fine layering and tuning of the flow of the sound waves by working with tubes of different zize and straws for example in the right location on the shear velocity of the waves and their sound pressure...

 

 

 

In a small room remember that at the speed of sound 1100 feet by second, the sound weaves cross your small room of 13 feet, like mine for example, cross it 84 times per second...Your room atmosphere is tense like a violin cord for the ears/brain. who take decision and make his computing between your 2 ears in couple of ten milliseconds... Do you begin to understand why even a straw or tube diameter/lenght/volume, can change the sound of a room /speakers relation ?

 

These 3 last aspects described above could be controlled with Helmhotz mechanical method NOT by electronical equalization...

( Imaging, soundstage, dynamic, timbre percption, listener envelopment, sound source dimension, colors,etc any acoustic qualities are all related with one another and changing one is changing the others a bit also, the key is changing all of them together with mechanical control in a fine tuning incremental optimizing process of listenings experiments)

Electronic E.Q. can be a useful tool but cannot tune a room nor be a PART of the room like a mechanical equalizer...And E.Q.uing with a frequency test ask for a location which could be accurate only in a millimeter range, anywhere else causing havoc...

Then the piano will not sound the same from the same pair of speakers in a non controlled room and in a controlled one...Not even close...

 

 

Dont upgrade good speakers with costly one BEFORE studying and experimenting with acoustic...

My acoustic devices and experiments were all homemade and cost me nothing...

I can then claim that great hi-Fi experience is possible at low cost contrary to what is claimed or supposed almost everywhere by almost everyone...

People dont know acoustic and never seriously try experimenting with it in a dedicated SMALL room...

Anyway if electronic engineering design is a mature technology for 70 yeears now with major improvement behind, acoustic of SMALL room is a new venture for few decades only because customers demands was not there enough till very recently....

A living room is not an audio dedicated room... I am happy to be retired and i could experiment for the last few years in acoustic and made the above discoveries for myself...

A dedicated audio room is the ONLY one luxury in audio not the price tag of the gear at all...

Basic relatively good gear is enough to give a very good audiophile experience FOR MOST PEOPLE... Claiming the opposite is most of the times ignorance of acoustic....Reviewers sells gear not acoustic information...Then the customer is conditioned to upgrade the gear not to understand acoustic...

By the way i am only a not skilled, non crafty, ordinary dude, but dedicated in my passion : listening music with a good sound but at NO COST or very low one...

Is it possible? Yes i proved it to myself and my goal here is to point to the right direction for improvement and spare people their money...

I learned a bit of acoustic by listening experiments not by resolving equations...Anyway acoustic phenomenon are too complex in a small room with his multidimensional numerous parameters to be reducible to simple linear equations...It is mostly non linear phenomena...

Anyway the ears could beat computer on the qualities recognition... It is the reason why blind people develop bat skill and learn to see sound...

Human ears evolve million of years to recognize "timbre voices" not tested frequency and qualities in the sound source not reflective abstract waves for themselves...A map is not reality....

Acoustic has a taste, a color, a touch, and a life of his own so to speak in a poetical way... 😁😊😊😊

 

P.S. My system basic value is around 500 bucks but every part is well chosen and after 7 years i dont think to upgrade any part at all thanks to acoustic...

The photo in my virtual page by the way are too old and are in no way able to describe my actual room....

It is way nuttier and more silly now than some here said it was, trying to discredit my claims and discoveries...But my room is more a LABORATORY, not a living room and not the usual audio room, and "at no cost", none of my devices homemade and with improvised design are esthetical and suited to a normal living room... More skilled people than me must make their own device more beautiful and more efficient...

I say that my room is a laboratory because nobody teach me acoustic here and how to control a room...

-Passive treatment is NOT active mechanical control for example, they are COMPLEMENTARY but one cannot replace the other at all,

-square small room are not "bad" if we know how to adress them , ( there is no bad room only improved one, my room : 13 feet by 13 feet and 8 feet 1/2))

-and near listening will be affected by the room acoustic like regular listening position in a small room...( then thinking that near listening will make acoustic treatment and control unnecessary is wrong)

These 3 facts for example were personal discoveries contradicting popular claims in audio thread.......

And to give you an idea about my speakers/room relation NONE of my 7 headphones, hybrid, electrostatic or magneplanar or dynamic are interesting to listen to now , they are in my closet retired....

I begin my audiophile journey by buying headphones and modifying them with success hoping to reach the better...But Headphones are not for most of them satisfying on all acoustical count even when modified positively... I decided to try my luck with speakers...

After i have sold my stupendous Tannoy dual gold 12 inches speaker...I was lucky enough to buy the best speaker Mission ever designed for 50 bucks : Mission cyrus speakers 780 for sure they dont have the Tannoy potential but they are smaller and very good with acoustic control... Ratio quality/price more than good...But this is only relatively good basic gear, nothing to brag about...Acoustic is more important than the gear piece...

I learned for 2 years of acoustic homemade treatment and many months of experiments in acoustic control non stop... I am retired and time was no problem only money was... 😁😊

😁😀😊😁😊

I sell creativity not gear .....I sell a method not "tweaks"...

128x128mahgister

Helpful and comprehensive post. Thank you.

This is not my situation, but I wonder how you might answer this question.

"I have done a lot of analysis of my room using your parameters. However, I do not have a speaker, yet.

Since every speaker will interact differently with my room, how do I choose which speaker to get?

After all, knowing my room’s character can help narrow down which speakers might work, but it cannot tell me what they will sound like or if they will work, well.

This is due to the very complex nature of speaker-room interaction which you describe so well.

Once I have a speaker, then measuring and adjusting all the parameters you mention will be crucial for optimizing things. Yes! I agree with you.

But until I have chosen the speaker, I cannot do the optimization. Please help with that phase of the process."

Any thoughts?

P.S. This kind of question would also apply to an upgrade. If one does not yet know how the upgrade speaker will interact with the room, the same difficult problem presents itself. 

 

Thanks very good question hilde45...

How to choose speakers?

I owned 2 pair of speakers in my life that pleased me...( i dont count very small computer speakers i tried for my desk)

The Tannoy dual gold 12 inches which i owned for 40 years ( 2 sets paid 400 bucks in 1975 each set) and i sold them because they were too big for my desk,
which i regret to have sold 1000 bucks because they needed refurbishing at the times and they were too big for my desk..

7 years ago i have decided, owning no more a really working audio system, to concentrate on desk small speakers and headphones...

I bought 8 headphones of 4 different types and modified them mechanically and acoustically and electrically...With success...But compared to speakers i stay unsatisfied...

My audio journey begin like that...

I stay unsatisfied a long time and one day i decided after having sold my marvellous Tannoy dual gold, to go back to speakers again...I decided to go British for the speakers because of my past Tannoy good experience...

I read non stop all REVIEWS about all speakers type but mostly vintage affordable one...I bought a small Mission speakers for my computer desk which was so good i decided to read all there is about the best and top Mission model...

I stumble on the Mission cyrus 781, i read all reviews on them... I bought them 50 bucks... :)

These were the best model Mission ever designed and they were sold around 1000 bucks in 1989... Dont confuse them with the newer Mission 781 (same number) the Cyrus model with the same number is superior...

I was lucky to buy them at this price and they were able to work again after some long warming for months... :)

Now this was luck!

And the result of studying all positive and i discovered no negative reviews... It was like my Sansui AU 7700 there is not a single negative reviews of this amplifier on the net and i look for them for months...

This is my story...

Now to answer your question ...

How do i choose a pair of speakers?

I dont know and even Floyd Toole the great acoustician explain in this video WHY it is so difficult...

Listen to this video for some answer....

Now i will say something to you which is the fruit of my own experience and experiments in acoustic...

i am not an acoustician at all only a regular passionnate dude who wanted to create sonic heaven on earth at no cost...

My experience is that NO SPEAKERS will sound the same in a non treated and non controlled room, compared to a treated and well controlled room... NONE... There will be no comparison at all....Save for a better "timbre" experience potential... eWhen i listen my Mission the first time after owning a very good hibrid magneplanar system the Monsoon desk computer, i was not so sure that it was better on all counts with the Mission... But my room at this time was nude not treated and uncontrolled...

Then choose the speakers with your studying of reviews and ratio price /quality, and "touch some wood" for luck if you are not able to listen to them before buying like me...

I dont know any other means... The specifications marked by the company are not all the story there is to know.... Listen to Floyd Toole video....

And knowing what i know by EXPERIMENTS about SMALL room acoustic i know and it is the good news, how to adapt the room response to a particular speakers... I know it by a long trial and errors process not by equations solving or by a simple recipe....

Acoustic of small room CANNOT be adressed and taking care of ONLY by simple recipe and few panels like said some acoustic panels sellers for the sake of their business...For sure it is better than nothing...

But adapting the room to some specific demand of our own ears and for specific speakers is a long TRIAL incremental tuning process.... The bad news is this is a different process mechanically for each different room and different speakers... There is no simple recipe , we must make a long tuning process with hundred of listenings sessions in a DEDICATED room...But the result is so ASTOUNDING that almost no upgrade of gear will compare... It is huge to the point there is no relation between the sound of speakers BEFORE and AFTER room treatment and especially room control... Someone who did not live the process himself cannot know it and believe it...

Acoustic is the key to audio... Nothing else... For sure the two other embeddings dimensions controls must be adress, the noise floor level of the house, and the mechanical vibrations of the system also.... What i called the three working dimensions of control for any audio system... But the acoustic is by far the most important one...

Then how do i choose speakers?

I dont know save for reading reviews and listening to them to eliminate the worst speakers and with luck stumble on a good one... This is the bad news.... The good news is that we can manage acoustically any relatively good speakers and put them on another level completely, on their own unknown peak working potential level of S.Q. with acoustic treatment and mechanical acoustic control...

My method is new and because i am not an acoustician i devised it by a trial and errors process on few years... I can describe the general recipe but i cannot replace the necessary long listening tuning process which is necessary to adapt to specific ears specific room to specific speakers by a magic formula...

Another aspect was that i modefied my Mission Speakers for the best with succees mechanically, with my own method of vibrations control with two set of 4 strings boxes at low cost dissymetrically compressed under and above the speakers under a heavy load of concrete...

I even use my "golden plate" device to modify the speakers, decreasing some noise of the electronics or coming from the cables ( shungite plate +copper tape on the external face)

And i used Helmholtz resonators near the drivers and the tweeters of each speakers but with diffferent H.R. for each speakers to make a better response for each one of my ears and brain when it compute the room distance...

I used 23 tubes of different size and lenght for each speakers and in the porthole and above the speakers to modify the velocity shear flow around the speakers and completely improve the imaging and timbre...

All my room is already under control with more than 50 tubes of different size, absorbing and diffusing resonators, which i adjusted by listening mechanically for their aperture and lenght and volume...

I know it is not easy and simple process but it is not so difficult that it seems if someone dare to try trusting his own skill for learning and training our ears which is the most fun experience i ever lived through.... Cost : almost nothing....

Then i apologize for not answering simply to the question : how do i choose my speakers?

But if even Floyd Toole cannot answered it simply i could not too....
I have said the essential i know of...

 

 

 

The one line answer is:

There is no relation between the S.Q. of a relatively good speakers BEFORE and AFTER acoustic treatment and control...We must read about and listen if possible to some speakers, buy them and AFTER THAT adapt the room to them... There is no other way for me...

No speakers will work the same in some nude room, their response will depend of the room response linked to them also, will depend of the high level or not of the passive treatment and and especially of the mechanical control settings of the room adapted for them and your own specfic ears structure and skills...

Small room acoustic is a very new field and no so much well understood practically because each speakers, each acoustic content, geometry, and topology for each room is very different... Then putting some acoustic panels at the right spot like most did and bass traps will help but it is a long shot from what i called mechanical control equalization of the room with Helmholtz method...

I apologize for not giving a simple recipe and simple answer ...I can only point to the right direction... And it is more easy that it seems it ask for a dedicated room yes and for plenty of time...But nothing is more fun to do...

A dedicated room is really the only luxury in audio, those who boast about costly gear are ignorant of acoustic for me like reviewers selling gear and not acoustic information with it...

But no one can make big money with acoustic... Only with upgrading the gear...

All audio is consumerism conditioning more than science...

 

 

This video is informative and moving at some time...And you will understand why it is not simple to buy a good set of speakers...

 

@mahgister Thank you for the reply. It will take me some time to read it. I will also watch the video.

There is a chicken and egg problem in all of this, but it is likely solved by iterative and experimental testing. 

You are better than me to say things simply and economically...English is by far not my language, i never spoke it and never wrote it before coming here, only read it... i apologize for that...

My deepest respect to you...

Thanks for your simple resume :

There is a chicken and egg problem in all of this, but it is likely solved by iterative and experimental testing.