Law of Accelerated Returns

@noske You make good points about deciding what matters, and then having what matters change to you over time as your experience evolves. I think you have understood me and expanded on it. I’ve had exposure recently to a co-worker’s speakers he built being played through a new, very highly measuring Topping amp, and an old Hafler amp. The new amp really sounded dry and tight, and not that interesting. Better though if it went through a pre-amp. The Hafler sounded much more interesting and vivid, but I suspected it might get tiresome. We both agreed on the sound difference. Both of us didn’t expect it. The perception of instruments taking up spaces in the air was happening on the Hafler. Fascinating, scintillating. I loved it. I’ve never heard anything real do that. Or have I? Am I just not used to hearing something realistic when I can’t see it actually there? It’s really hard to tell. I’d have to live with it for a while to understand it better. In short, I’m convinced there are possibilities with sound reproduction that I have not yet fully explored. I know that I can get a lot of enjoyment out of fairly basic equipment that measure well in a room with good acoustics. Interestingly these speakers when we played them were not in any kind of an optimal listening room at all, at least not by standard practices. They were just plopped on a desk and crammed pretty close to the sidewalls in a nook in the office. Still they were doing something very interesting with that Hafler amp. 

@jbhiller , as you noticed, after a point price has little to do with it. Regardless of price the majority of systems are never going to perform at SOTA levels in the rooms they are in without analysis, room treatment and digital correction. Now I'm in for it. 

@mapman , That omnidirectional thing died decades ago. Speakers with controlled directivity will out perform omni directional speakers in most rooms as they create fewer early reflections. The outlier is bass because it is virtually impossible to control directivity at low frequencies and the resultant nodal behavior can be difficult (impossible?) to ameliorate.  

Listening to The Arctic Monkey's At the Albert Hall. This is a FN GREAT record!

Jeez, when a dealer refuses to let you listen to a system unless you can buy it... there's just nothing honest about it. I can understand that he will not go to lengths to put the system up for you as the dealers priority is the potential buyer. He has the obligation to put the system together for the guy who wants to hear it before he takes it home. The casual listener's curiosity is only next in line. 

However, when someone wants to buy a top rig, then others should be allowed to listen. If not, avoid those f-tards and don't do any business for them. They will not give you good advice, their priority is to pocket your money, at any level you are.

I guess I'm lucky with my dealers in the area. (Honolulu). Stu (my mentor, RIP) had his small room with more affordable systems, and his big room with his top systems and everyone was always welcome to listen. We actually lived in his store... we spent hours (sometimes half days) every week listening to gear (and talking stories;.), and making lots of close, long lasting friendships in the store.

And there's Toms store, Audiolab. He makes regular audio club events to hear the top gear, and bring your CDs / Lps you want to hear. He had Dave Wilson come over and set up the top of the line Wilson speakers in person, and was present to ask questions - a very humble and approachable man (RIP).

Dealers should be honest and transparent, and audiophiles should be offered a perspective of the entire range from entry level to highest available. Whether one can afford at the moment is not of big concern, as in time a lot can change and even a top system might become the matter of a quick signature.... or the guy who bought the top system might be coming back next year for a dose of Schiit after loosing his job.... 

Of course, after a certain point we reach a high level, and once optimized, with changes there is relatively subtle differences unless you are willing to radically change your systems approach.

There is a big chasm after this level, and there's a level that's really far out: when you quit analyzing the sound and it becomes a next-level experience. It will hit you like a shock-wave, and people who go though it look as if they had a trauma, took drugs or something very stirring happened in their lives. It might take you months to be able to gather the strength to listen to your system after an experience like this. Maybe you will be broken or changed forever. For me, the fifth high end system I ever heard was this experience, and it pushed me to change from an ordinary person regarding audio as a hobby / interesting thing / buy what I can afford and that's it - to go into audio hard core, spend many thousand hours researching it, and build and design amplifiers and speakers that get me that experience I got from the system that required more dough than a Silver Spirit (the car...).

I ended up building my system that gave me experience with that level of depth, for about 1% or less than what the expensive system did cost. However, have I not heard it, I would never had such a high mark in front of me. You can only knock on a door if you know it exists....

Harley’s example is ridiculous! Going from $1000 to $2000 speaker is a 100% increase. Going from $100,000 to $101,000 is only a 1 % increase. Of course the difference / improvement should be much greater with the former. 
 

Everything has diminishing returns, audio equipment, cars, bicycles etc. You can get a pretty well performing Mid size Sedan like the top tier V-6 Honda Accord or  Toyota Camry for about $3500 & they get you maybe 80-85% of what a nice Mercedes’ or BMW sedan which costs twice that. That said, the Japanese cars will likely be much more reliable long term. High performance anything costs a lot