I don't want to beat a dead horse but I'm bugged.


I just can't clear my head of this. I don't want to start a measurements vs listening war and I'd appreciate it if you guys don't, but I bought a Rogue Sphinx V3 as some of you may remember and have been enjoying it quite a bit. So, I head over to AVS and read Amir's review and he just rips it apart. But that's OK, measurements are measurements, that is not what bugs me. I learned in the early 70s that distortion numbers, etc, may not be that important to me. Then I read that he didn't even bother listening to the darn thing. That is what really bugs me. If something measures so poorly, wouldn't you want to correlate the measurements with what you hear? Do people still buy gear on measurements alone? I learned that can be a big mistake. I just don't get it, never have. Can anybody provide some insight to why some people are stuck on audio measurements? Help me package that so I can at least understand what they are thinking without dismissing them completely as a bunch of mislead sheep. 

russ69

Great comments!

**** I think that in the not too distant future we are going to learn that there are many dimensions of our perception that don’t align with current systems of measured performance. ****

Bingo! I would take it a step further. I don’t think we will ever be able to “fully align our perceptions with measured performance”. And, you know what? I like it that way. Notice how there is always one very important word missing from these discussions, particularly on the part of the objectivists: MUSIC.

How does one quantify the reason that one drummer can lay down a fantastic groove; while another sounds accurate, but like a machine? Or, the sense that he and the bass player are in total musical sync, as opposed to in their own musical universes? Or, the subtle, but crucial feeling of tension, like a coiled spring, that an orchestra’s string section brings to the performance of a musical passage when they make a beautiful and seamless crescendo from ppp to fff ? What measurements exist that explain the perception of these very real things? And, aren’t these things what ultimately make the listening experience enjoyable? As in music, those are the things of the ART of audio electronic design; some designers have it and way too many don’t.

Didn’t you get the memo?

@rodman99999

Today, if you dare to believe what your eyes, ears, mind and bank account tell you; there MUST be something wrong with YOU!

Those, "authorities" are there to protect you from your faulty senses, broken/misguided mind and the dangers of things like facts, truth and whatever else they might find discomfiting, at the moment (their b_tch de jour).

Just get in line, do and believe what you’re told, like good little sheeple.

An excellent summation as to where we currently in many instances. Many other  terrific and on the bullseye comments here. There's hope after all. 

Charles

What the OP is stating is that the website known as ASR and Amir himself, are both severely out of balance. Dangerously out of balance. This was announced via the stated point of Amir ’not actually listening to the given DUT’. (device under test)

There is a chance he did it purposely as a dig, as a poorly veiled spitting upon, as it were. Monkey talk. Purposeful escalation.

Importantly, one who does not use measurements at all, is also ’potentially’ out of balance.

’Potentially’ as they must understand that measurements DO count for something, even if that given gauge (ie, tool) or measurement system is not fully connected to the ear/brain aspects, as it is all currently understood. Ie, that we argue it, meaning it is not at all clear - as question and answer sets may go.

 

Discussion of realities begets solutions, which, to possibly bother some, via saying it... is why Musk is trying to buy Twitter. To prevent further slide into fascist psychological gaming ideology - being practiced upon us, via the window of Twitter. To enable actual discussion, not the current psychological manipulative directive where social media is being sculpted into being a hammer - by forces not recognized by the masses.

We’ve already seen the response, it is swift and outsized, which denotes panic. Which is inherently dangerous. Those who feel threat will commit to wild dangerous swings.

 

One theory is as good as the next I guess. You can manufacture conspiracies and ulterior motives in everything if you want to. Personally, I go for the simplest explanation first. All the measurement guys are telling you is that the product has poor measurements. OK. Thanks for the information. I’ll take it from here. 

So, I head over to AVS and read Amir's review

the website known as ASR and Amir himself

My bad, I am referring to ASR not AVS but they are both of the same ilk.