I don't want to beat a dead horse but I'm bugged.


I just can't clear my head of this. I don't want to start a measurements vs listening war and I'd appreciate it if you guys don't, but I bought a Rogue Sphinx V3 as some of you may remember and have been enjoying it quite a bit. So, I head over to AVS and read Amir's review and he just rips it apart. But that's OK, measurements are measurements, that is not what bugs me. I learned in the early 70s that distortion numbers, etc, may not be that important to me. Then I read that he didn't even bother listening to the darn thing. That is what really bugs me. If something measures so poorly, wouldn't you want to correlate the measurements with what you hear? Do people still buy gear on measurements alone? I learned that can be a big mistake. I just don't get it, never have. Can anybody provide some insight to why some people are stuck on audio measurements? Help me package that so I can at least understand what they are thinking without dismissing them completely as a bunch of mislead sheep. 

russ69

Bingo! I would take it a step further. I don’t think we will ever be able to “fully align our perceptions with measured performance”. And, you know what? I like it that way. Notice how there is always one very important word missing from these discussions, particularly on the part of the objectivists: MUSIC.

How does one quantify the reason that one drummer can lay down a fantastic groove; while another sounds accurate, but like a machine? Or, the sense that he and the bass player are in total musical sync, as opposed to in their own musical universes? Or, the subtle, but crucial feeling of tension, like a coiled spring, that an orchestra’s string section brings to the performance of a musical passage when they make a beautiful and seamless crescendo from ppp to fff ? What measurements exist that explain the perception of these very real things? And, aren’t these things what ultimately make the listening experience enjoyable? As in music, those are the things of the ART of audio electronic design; some designers have it and way too many don’t.

Great post  indeed that reflect also my experience...

Thanks

Let both worlds exist. Let the arguments continue to play out. Hope that laws aren’t passed that make it a crime to submit to one side or the other. I see the bumper stickers now. "Love a tube amp. Go to jail.".

So as far as the designer is concerned, the listening part is almost academic nowadays.

I think that is the way mass market audio is designed. It is designed to a cost bracket and a specification requirement. But I understand for quality audio gear that is only the starting point and extensive listening tests are conducted and the component values are changed not to perfect the specifications but to make the product sound right. And that is where the two camps diverge. One camp thinks they are finished after the measurements take place and the other camp starts going to work after that point. 

Measurements are certainly important, but I don't think they tell the entire story.

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

But if you're looking for accuracy in terms of audio fidelity, I think measurements are very important.