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I don't want to beat a dead horse but I'm bugged.

I just can't clear my head of this. I don't want to start a measurements vs listening war and I'd appreciate it if you guys don't, but I bought a Rogue Sphinx V3 as some of you may remember and have been enjoying it quite a bit. So, I head over to AVS and read Amir's review and he just rips it apart. But that's OK, measurements are measurements, that is not what bugs me. I learned in the early 70s that distortion numbers, etc, may not be that important to me. Then I read that he didn't even bother listening to the darn thing. That is what really bugs me. If something measures so poorly, wouldn't you want to correlate the measurements with what you hear? Do people still buy gear on measurements alone? I learned that can be a big mistake. I just don't get it, never have. Can anybody provide some insight to why some people are stuck on audio measurements? Help me package that so I can at least understand what they are thinking without dismissing them completely as a bunch of mislead sheep. 

128x128russ69
tylermunns
601 posts
 

I thought it was well understood that measurements are a valid place to start from, but by no means the be-all-end-all.  Ears are.

People sometimes prefer the sound of things that are measurably “worse” than other things, i.e. analog vs. digital, tubes vs. solid state, etc.

I feel to keep oneself sane in pursuit of great sound, measurements provide consistent repeatable parameters, but not necessarily the final word, though perhaps sometimes they do.

realworldaudio
174 posts
 
Thank you @mahgister for sharing your thoughts on the matter, we are on the same page. Being an audio enthusiast is to explore, and welcome both ends of the spectrum so we can turn passive, inert knowledge into applied wisdom.

 

@deludedaudiophile

For starters, I recommend for you these engineers, audio giants, columns of the audio industry: Nelson Pass, Dan D'Agostino, Peter Qvotrup, John Atkinson, and John DeVore. Listen to and read what they say. They will confirm what I summarized in my previous post. It's not an overnight thing. Getting an education takes time and effort.

Good luck for the hunt, you will enjoy it! I warmly recommend to learn from the comments of experienced posters who post here instead of being on the offensive. There's nobody here who wants to hurt you. This is a forum of sharing so we can all learn from each others experiences, especially when they are different from ours. Kind regards. 

 

russ69's avatar
russ69 OP
3,529 posts
 

Why does Amir's opinion matter so much?

Trust me when I say Amir's opinion does not matter to me at all, it carries zero weight for me. What this thread is about is trying to understand the mind set of people that only rely on measurements and not the sound of audio gear. However, thanx for posting and stimulating the conversation. I welcome all input.

bjesien
1,338 posts
 

The people who measure and explain are a dime a dozen. Those that see the artfulness and beauty to life are a very different crowd. It’s unlikely that either group will end up in your living room spinning records so just realize the camp you’re in and channel the information to develop your mojo. 

deludedaudiophile
493 posts
 

@realworldaudio I will interpret your response to indicate my post was correct.

 

@russ69  thank you. Some seem pretty worked up here.  I cannot speak for Amir and he does come across to me as unjustifiably arrogant, but I expect most who use measurements in audio use them more for relative comparisons than absolutes. It's why I tried the IEMs though I didn't know if I would be happy. I do expect there is more truth to DAC measurements than many audiophiles want to accept, but human interpretation of say a tube amp is also part of the science so to ignore that is not "audio science" either. There needs to be more acceptance and less animosity on both sides.

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