I don't want to beat a dead horse but I'm bugged.


I just can't clear my head of this. I don't want to start a measurements vs listening war and I'd appreciate it if you guys don't, but I bought a Rogue Sphinx V3 as some of you may remember and have been enjoying it quite a bit. So, I head over to AVS and read Amir's review and he just rips it apart. But that's OK, measurements are measurements, that is not what bugs me. I learned in the early 70s that distortion numbers, etc, may not be that important to me. Then I read that he didn't even bother listening to the darn thing. That is what really bugs me. If something measures so poorly, wouldn't you want to correlate the measurements with what you hear? Do people still buy gear on measurements alone? I learned that can be a big mistake. I just don't get it, never have. Can anybody provide some insight to why some people are stuck on audio measurements? Help me package that so I can at least understand what they are thinking without dismissing them completely as a bunch of mislead sheep. 

russ69

And realistically the dealer, and more to the point… salesmen, have a low track record for trustworthiness.

My first dealer, Walt at Woodland stereo always made sure I went home with the right stuff. He helped Arnie Nudel with his first loudspeaker the Servo Statik. Walt had the best sound of any SoCal audio shop. Many years later I was dealing with Kevin Deal, he has a good ear and I just have to tell him what direction I want to go in and he gets me there. If you haven't found someone that is on your wavelength, keep looking around and going to shops until you find that person. 

@sns

@atmasphere If you read that post again, that was not a posit, rather a question? I can’t make that posit without having heard the components I speak of. You posit they’ll all sound the same, apparently, you trust the measurements over human sensory perception. This in a nutshell, speaks to difference between O and S, I need to listen, O’s don’t.

The point I believe that you might have missed is the fact that he is an amplifier designer and manufacturer.

I would be pretty disappointed if Ralph, Bruno, and/or a handfuls of other “engineers” were using tweaks and burning of incense to design gear.

I would reword your quote to be:

This in a nutshell, speaks to difference between us.

  • I listen carefully to O that have a track record of quality gear as understanding the objective science.
  • And I listen to S as story tellers, sometimes conveying the qualitative.

A good objectivist understands what tickles the toes of the pure subjectivist.
The reverse is almost never true.

Maybe a subjectivist could be in a middle ground of wearing the twin hats of objectivist, and liking the subjective experience. But I doubt it.

It seems more common that one either is not capable of understanding the technical nuance, or they just do not want to… and they like to hold up their hands and claim it is all unknowable.

At some point though it is true that no matter how glowing the prose is, it is hard to make believe that something is good, when it in fact, sounds bad.

Hence I would not say “Trust our ears”, but I would say, “Verify with our ears.”

The difference is O knows what's best for me, S suggests.

That is a total straw man argument.
 

A better quote might be, “Os know why I like what like”.

At least some s also know why I and others like what they like. We're very aware of every issue o brings up, the difference between s and o is what we value. In the end whatever gets you off is fine with me.