Soundstage and image height, does it exist?


On another site, there is a discussion on soundstage, and there are a few people clamming, that, since there is no vertical information encoded on stereo recordings, that soundstage height does not actually exist. It is a product of our minds filling in missing information. 

Are they correct?

Please explain your position, with as much technical details as you feel needed.

 

128x128simonmoon

Thanks for all the responses to my OP, folks!

I have never had a problem getting height in my images, when the material calls for it. 

 

Like in the track on Chesky's first "Ultimate Evaluation Disk", with the Mozart flute concerto, where, on all my previous systems, and my current one, the flute is always at the correct height for a person standing and playing the flute.

Like wise, on the title track of King Crimson's "Islands", there is a cornet that comes in at about 2:00 in, that is also at about 5.5 feet above the floor, just at the correct height.

I ordered Chesky's CD with the LEDR test on it, even though I know you can get it for free. I also want the rest of the material on the disk.

 

If height information is encoded in a recording I’ve found it doesn’t take much of a system at all for it to be perceived. Pretty much any basic system will make it work. Height perception should even work in mono. I’ve found it also easy to get sounds extending well beyond the speakers to even behind the listener. Speaker placement and listening position are a little more important for the wrap around effect but it doesn’t require a great system. I find forward depth is far more difficult for me to perceive, pretty much impossible if I can see the front wall too close to me, although it can work if I close my eyes and the system is well balanced tonally and speakers positioned well.

It exists but recording as well as room and equipment dependent. My reason for saying this, I can hear it in my room at times. Certainly the depth, left, right and center aspects of sound stage are much more frequently present. When I say height its not that the wall of sound is high as well as wide it is I can hear specific sounds as coming from a tall specific spot within the sound stage.

There is no soundstage image height or image at all. It's just your brain trying to make sense of what it's perceiving its a trick an illusion. Just like when you watch all those non-moving fixed images on your TV your brain makes it seem like real motion is going on.

There is no soundstage image height or image at all. It's just your brain trying to make sense of what it's perceiving its a trick an illusion.

@johnk 

Then how do you explain Northwestern's LEDR recording, already mentioned several times on this thread?

The track in question, starts with a tone in the left speaker, which then moves straight UP to at least 8' or more feet up, moves across to directly over the top of the right speaker, then down to the speaker level. 

Yes, this track was created specifically to exaggerate this effect, but if speakers were incapable of producing height, please explain this track.

So far, this same phenomena occurs on every system I've played it on. Even speakers not known for their great imaging.