The Snob Appeal Premium


I have learned that speakers are a typical victim of "Designer Label Syndrome".  Supposedly an $8 billion a year market (hard to believe) speakers are fairly simple beasts with little substantive improvements over the last 50 years. Ever since Paul Klipsch ( a character in his own right) read the Bell Labs 1934 papers and revolutionized speaker technology there have been few similar revolutionary improvements to the speaker. So- if you are an enterprising manufacturer of speakers (which are relatively cheap to build) how do you extract more and more money from the consumer ?  Answer: Synthetic demand driven by cachet' !  Like a pair of Louis Vuitton sneakers @ $650 a pair vs. New Balance runners @ 60/pr. It's snobby bragging rights stuff I'm describing here- perceived vs. actual value in a product. 

Here's an anecdotal example: 

I recently set out to build a high end mid-fi system (ARC preamp, power amp, Dac 9) for a large room "main house" (not a listening room) system. The goal was big, full, rich sound in a room full of furniture, chow dogs, kids and untreatable other things like 20 foot ceilings, multiple openings such as a balcony to the upstairs bedrooms, etc. Basically an audiophile's nightmare. 

I auditioned a number of speakers- Perlistens supported by JL Fathom subs, B&W Signatures, Bryston Model Ts, Vienna Acoustics Mahlers and Bethovens. IMO all of these are somewhat similar towers (except the Perlistens). The price point was not as important as the sound- given the limitations of the application. 

In the shopping for new or used I found a number of odd prices. The most unusual finding was a brand new set of Model Ts here in Audiogon advertised for $4K with a 20 year factory warranty. The dealer had one slide around of his hand truck and it put white paint smears on a corner of the Boston Cherry cabinet. Hmmm- 4 grand vs. 12 grand for a small fixable cosmetic flaw? I bought them. They sound fantastic. Some elbow grease and a furniture marker pen made the flaw vanish. 

I asked the dealer (Paul Kraft in Easton PA- great guy BTW) why the Audiogon Blue Book for a Model T was so low. His answer was "snob appeal". Apparently there is a big bragging rights  premium paid for having the UFO looking B&W Signatures vs what the snobs call the Bryston Model Ts "Axioms in a fancy suit".  I later learned that there are some prominent reviewers who refuse to listen to A/B speaker comparisons behind a silk curtain unless they know what brand is being scrutinized. To me that means "payola". 

Do the Model Ts sound better to me than the Mahlers, Bethovens, B&Ws? No. But they don't sound worse either (in my application). Do the above sound $8,000-$14,000 better than the Brystons in the listening rooms of the dealers? IMO NO WAY. To be fair price/value does color my perception much like a bottle of $40 Rumbauer Zin tastes better to me than $200 Silver Oak expense account wine. 

I'm guessing this post will anger brand snobs and garner snarky comments because their taste in sound is different than mine. Although this missive is really about personal perceptions of value v. sound I found my education on pricing fascinating and I feel great about finding amazing value in the brand new Model T's that needed 30 minutes of TLC to be at home in my family room. 

Moral of the story: Try em before you buy em, and look for value. It's fun and rewarding with no buyers remorse. 

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The industry is exploiting the audio truth that ’you get what you pay for’ and delivering to the misguided expectations of deep-pocketed buyers who equate the highest prices with ‘better’ and ‘best’.

The owner of a hifi shop described how he would recommend a particular pair of Magnepans as his best sounding speakers on offer, but customers would judge by the price and they’d look onward to the more expensive sets, they’d say, ‘Those are nice, but tell me about these over here.’

As a result, for example, an amplifier brand and a speaker brand were both separately given the same business advice: ‘You’re selling that for $3000? Charge $10,000.’

We do indeed get what we pay for in the sense that audio equipment is about quality components in the signal path.

Every choice a manufacturer makes down to the choice to use a higher quality resistor affects the balance sheet and raises the price.

Steve McCormack’s description of his quest to build the best preamplifier is a revelation, and many others have talked about this.

But, while it’s true that quality audio equipment is expensive to produce, the ones with more money than they know what to do with have skewed the market, and the industry is happy to take their money.

"

when i owned my 2016 Porsche CS2 for 18 months it was a garage Queen. a trophy. i drove it a few times a week in the summer. put 3000 miles on it. made me smile.

but i listened to my system with multi-6 figure speakers 3-5 hours a day. every day of the year.

no contest. the speakers had an infinitely higher ROI.....both in use and snob appeal and visitors to my room seemed to enjoy them regularly too.

just my 2 cents."

I agree with Mike Lavigne , while I never had a Porche, my Vette doesn't get much use ....  my humble system does get used daily, every day.     Much better value and ROI for sure. 

My Dad just picked up a pair of Sonus Electa Amator III.   When I listen to them any doubt whether they were worth the money quicly disappears.   They sound incredible and hopefully will give him just as much , or probably more enjoyment than the SF Concertos that the just retired.   They are on long term loan to me and still sound great.  

Over the last 50 years audio has evolved from a place where a lowly Sgt in the Army (Me)  could buy a system of components that sounded terrific and music was the focus to where we are today.

I have had a modicum of success in life and can afford a system the value of a new Toyota, not the most expensive gear, but certainly of a quality level that satisfies my ears.

What I see now is people chasing a very small marginal gain at a huge cost.  Married to an economist wife who appreciates music, we agree on the value of not chasing that beast that causes people to change gear in an elusive chase that often has no end.  She is the one who said I could buy 20.7 Maggies if I wanted to, but we agreed that 3.6s were a better value at that time and would require a good bit less power.  
 

Sometimes bigger / more expensive is not better.  My 1958 Austin Healey Bugeye Sprite made me smile every time I drove it.  Power nothing, no radio, wtc, but oeople regularly would wave, stop and say hi at stop lights, etc.  The same is true after a certain point in audio, quality sound is a available without spending the moon.

What is often lost is the synergy among components, especially inputs and pre amps.  Of course the room is a huge deal, but often compromises rule the day and tat 1/10 of 1 percent gain from huge expenditures gets lost in the room.  No one spoke of source material during the speaker discussion.  Are you spinning records, streaming, using R2R, etc.  The chase can be addictive as we all know, yet the man driving a Ferrari Enzo will get more more pleasure out of his car than I have from my Bugeye, and we are both happy at the end of the day.

There seems to be a common mistake many people have with audio, and especially as it reaches the upper prices and echelon.

I see many people say things like, "is a $20K speaker really worth twice that of a $10K speaker?".

Well, no, if one is expecting exactly twice the performance. But that’s not what one should expect to get out of twice the money.

This is where the phrase, ’diminishing returns’ gets thrown around quite a bit. When it comes to audio, diminishing returns does not exist, in any way other than subjectively, per individual. There is absolutely no objective point of diminishing returns.

If spending an extra $10K for speakers, to get less than double the sound quality is worth it for one person, they did not yet meet their point of diminishing returns.

Just remember, for members here who scoff at mega-dollar audio, there are millions of people out there, who listen to MP3’s. on their smart phones, with $20 earbuds, who think even the most modest, few thousand dollar complete system, is ridiculous money to spend.

I have been reading through the Troels Gravesen kit speaker builder project pages.

Many of the people who have built those speakers also own very good "brand" models like B&W 802D and ATC SCM 40  speakers and are reporting that the $2500 kit speakers they have built sound much better.

Those sorts of speakers are hard to sell though.People turn their nose up at them because they do not have any brand snobbery appeal.

Same goes for Chinese Copy amplifiers of ultra high end European models like Dartzeel NHB 108 or FM 300A.They sound superb but most people do not want to know about them.

So many audiophiles are snobs and clearly not really in it primarily for sound quality.