100 Albums You Would wish for...from a Genie

@tylermunns...very eloquently said! Agree totally.

That person emitting “music” from the onboard speaker of their cell phone in a sonically cacophonous environment (airport, busy urban bus stop, shopping mall, etc.) is experiencing music in a way that is just as valid as you or I listening to music in an immaculately engineered listening room with the highest quality equipment in the world.
As disagreeable, perhaps even vile I find the former’s behavior to be, as antithetical to music appreciation as I find that behavior to be, I don’t get to “tell” them “what music is.” Perhaps I may muster the gumption to politely ask them to use headphones out of respect to the thousands of other humans around them, but my personal feelings about what music “is” are my own.
They are not “facts.”

 

 

First i dont know about which post of mine you talked about ?

I never suggested and spoke HERE about people listening Bach or Beatles on a cell phone as inferior to audiophile with acoustic room ...

I said listening music as hearing sounds must be LEARNED not only by babies and children growing but even by us adults... THATS IS A FACT...

Then dont put in my mouth your own limited opinion or understanding or prejudices ...

Kafka is better than harlequin books in LITTERARY VALUE but i dont judge people liking harlequin by saying so... did you understand ? The reason is simple, we must all learn and grow... Myself included... i already say that in my discussion with simonmoon who put something interesting in motion ... I dont pretend to any authorithy, but this dont means that i am a total ignorant either ..

 

We are humans that experience music.
Is that something we can agree on?

If the answer is yes, then not even Ludwig Van Beethoven himself can “tell” me, or you, or anyone, what music “is” with absolute authority.

You are speaking with grave authority on matters that are purely subjective.

For sure music is not a mere "subjective" mess randomly distributed in all cultures, that we must treat as superficial subjective tastes in a relativistic manner as you suggested ...Those who think so are ignorant thats all...I apologize to say so but i say it... It is MY OPINION HERE...

Pygmies Polyphony and Bach polyphonies has something in common : they express something very deep about the spirit and grounded in history... This is A FACT not my opinion... The taste of someone liking  Bach and pygmies polyphonies or not dont change  THE FACTS....

Music is based on the body/brain/ throat/heart/soul/ etc music is ROOTED in the human metabolism and music is grounded  in the way human related to each other and communicate and perceive the world...THIS IS OBJECTIVE FACT....

Then it is not mere" subjectivity"...This is the starting point to understand the VALUES  of the different manifestation of music... Commercial music is not  yoruba drumming... The content is not the same at all.... The experience is not the same at all ... The goal and the richness is not the same at all... Each one of us we had our "tastes"...But they dont matter at all here... 

There is an objective grounding in the physical and spiritual BODY...Music is not  only a mere  hobby here music is not  only a mere commercial enterprise ...Sorry...

Perhaps for you it is a mere hobby and a product to consume following our "tastes"... It is more for me and it is more  for those who studied music and philosophy of music ...And i am one even if i dont claim any authorithy as you LABELLED ME ... I discussed with simonmoon and we tried to understand each other , imitate him instead of cornering me and putting something in my mouth...

Music is not only a deep therapeutical means, WHICH IS ALSO AN OBJECTIVE FACT and this is an OBJECTIVE fact too: it is also, even if you ignore it, the vehicle of human consciousness as manifested in certain way in all cultures...

In face of all these deep objective facts, saying that all is about "tastes", and consumers choices is not only childish and preposterous, it is useless as an opinion HERE in this discussion ...

And yes i can speak seriously on this matter, i never pretended to any authority, but i object and it is my opinion , i object to superficiality and relativism and consumerism  ...

Music is not mere subjectivity , no more than sound is just a mere subjective phenomenon... I can demonstrate why but it will take too much place...😊

Inform yourself before put a label on me ...

 

 

 

@simonmoon , @mahgister

Thanks to both of you for your very generous responses 🙏

@simonmoon

When I tried to listen to them, I was initially taken aback by the dissonances they use, and it made no sense to me. It sounded wrong to me. So, I put their recordings on my shelf and ignored them for probably close to a year. Fast forward many months, and after listening to many other prog bands, I decided to take them off the shelf and give them another listen. It was like a light went off in my brain. What made no sense just months before, was brilliant now. They almost immediately became one of my favorite bands, and remain so until this day.

There is only instance I can recall where I changed my mind about music I initially disliked and that was the two recordings by the acoustic version of Return to Forever. For a long time, they sounded extremely light weight and commercial to me. But I kept "returning" to them and then, one day, I enjoyed them and have ever since.

However, that was an aberration -- the exception-- rather than the rule. I’ve tried this "re-listening" tactic with other music (such as Prog -- "A Tab In The Ocean" is one that comes to mind-- ) and consistently failed. All I can conclude is that I’m unusually resistant to being dislodged from the familiar. No doubt there are psychological underpinnings for this that can be explored.

@mahgister

If you dont cry listening that you need a heart...It is no more singing...Because she pray really, she dont merely sing...

It would appear I’m a bit of an outlier re: your "test" of whether I posses a heart or not because, paradoxically, I’m not immune to the emotion M. A. conveys but neither do I enjoy the vocal esthetic. The latter tends to render the latter moot, in my case. Make of this what you will. ;o)

Of the samples you posted, the two I did enjoy were The Canticles of Ecstasy and the Schutz piece. I related to these not as "music for listening" but due to their strong emphasis on the vibrational aspect as a means of elevating consciousness, more as mantra or bhajan and in so doing, the question of esthetics/taste receded into the background.

That being said, I don’t want to listen to bhajan all the time!

Still, you have succeeded in opening up the possibility that Classical choral music (without orchestral accompaniment) might be something I could enjoy.

Finally, in the interest of accentuating the positive, here is an example of vocal music I have no difficulty enjoying that is not Jazz or any type of western popular music (the sound on the video is fairly quiet -- you may need to turn it up):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAQYISy-3YQ

 

I am not born with a taste for the Chinese erhu music nor for the Japan koto...

Any music must be LEARNED....

And love sometimes come when we are ready...

This does not m,eans that i will necessarily love Elliot Carter the way simonmoon argue for his greatness... But simonmoon AWAKE what perhaps will be called my ignorance tomorrow...

Thanks to him...

 

I never cease to love my innate taste musical choice : choral music all my life... ( not opera that i learned how to appreciate much , much later )

But i learned to appreciate all other music culture and styles ( not so much commercial music ) i did not love so much at first or not at all some music  BY IGNORANCE and LACK OF ATTENTION... I prefer to  the actual  pop commercial music his old roots in folk songs in England for example... By the late Alfred Deller for example...It is my tastes here... 😊

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0UZ3vvsfBI&list=PLiN-7mukU_RGQqxsWaJg7M94p1aTSJ4Hm

 

 

It is normal to have preferences, it is ignorance to reject all the rest for all our life...

That was my point...

i will try Elliott Carter as suggested by simonmoon... I will go slowly because it is not my "taste"... But i will LEARN something and sometimes miracles happen, and our mind open to new unsuspected possibilities...

This is music experience for me... Not only confort, relaxation, feeling, thinking, but the will to go where no one bodly goes... 😊

I never listen any jazz when young nor pop... I learned a lot with trying to understand jazz in the last 20 years...

 

 

 

I related to these not as "music for listening" but due to their strong emphasis on the vibrational aspect as a means of elevating consciousness, more as mantra or bhajan and in so doing, the question of esthetics/taste receded into the background.

 

I thank you for your post... You are very sensible astute man and you get my point completely here thanks very much ...

Music is not ALWAYS about esthetical tastes...It is way more...

Polyphonic pygmies songs act the way Mantras do and Bajhans do and i love very much all of them ...

Here our soul speak... It is way more than just "music taste"... Sacredness exist too...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnogT0JsJJ0&t=1311s

 

@mahgister I said, “you are speaking with grave authority on matters purely subjective.”   
That’s not “putting a label” on anybody. It’s called, “conversation.”

My bit about people listening to music on phones vs. gear made solely for music reproduction etc. was just a hypothetical scenario I made to prove a point.  
It had nothing to do whatsoever with anything you had previously written.

You somehow took that as being all about you; you took it personally.  
You said I was “putting a label on you.”

It’s called, “conversation.”

This is all very curious behavior. 

You then said I had “limited opinion or understanding.”  
An inexplicable statement, given the content of our exchanges at that point, and, more importantly, uncalled for.

“For sure music is not a mere "subjective" mess randomly distributed in all cultures, that we must treat as superficial subjective tastes in a relativistic manner as you suggested ...Those who think so are ignorant thats all..” 

I beg to differ.  
There are zero people on planet Earth that can “prove” one piece of music is “better” than another.  
My friends and fellow musicians (most of my friends are, like myself, professional musicians) know me to be…how should I put it…quick with an opinion.  
Sometimes the intensity of my opinions may be described as virulent.  
I can be pretty caustic.  
I’m also not an idiot and understand that my fancy-shmancy academic talk doesn’t amount to a hill of beans to someone who likes…gosh, I don’t know…Morgan Wallen, for example.
No matter the infallibility of my fluency in music theory, no matter the depth of my understanding of music history, no matter how deep of an understanding of the “nuts and bolts” of music may be, no matter how good at music I am, no matter how persuasive and academically sound my argument may be for the sheer suckiness of Morgan Wallen, it ultimately amounts to a hill of beans to the person who absolutely loves Morgan Wallen.  
It would result in a statement no more a “fact” than saying, “pizza is better than hamburgers.”

“Commercial music is not yoruba drumming... The content is not the same at all.... The experience is not the same at all”.  
According to whom?  
Again, not a fact.

The one reference to empirical fact you have made, your reference to the science that exists to support the idea that music can be physically therapeutic…that remedial listening may be just as effective via Morgan Wallen or BTS as Bach, depending on the person.  
“Inform yourself before you put a label on me.”  
Classy dude, this mahgister fellow.