100 Albums You Would wish for...from a Genie

@simonmoon , @mahgister

Thanks to both of you for your very generous responses 🙏

@simonmoon

When I tried to listen to them, I was initially taken aback by the dissonances they use, and it made no sense to me. It sounded wrong to me. So, I put their recordings on my shelf and ignored them for probably close to a year. Fast forward many months, and after listening to many other prog bands, I decided to take them off the shelf and give them another listen. It was like a light went off in my brain. What made no sense just months before, was brilliant now. They almost immediately became one of my favorite bands, and remain so until this day.

There is only instance I can recall where I changed my mind about music I initially disliked and that was the two recordings by the acoustic version of Return to Forever. For a long time, they sounded extremely light weight and commercial to me. But I kept "returning" to them and then, one day, I enjoyed them and have ever since.

However, that was an aberration -- the exception-- rather than the rule. I’ve tried this "re-listening" tactic with other music (such as Prog -- "A Tab In The Ocean" is one that comes to mind-- ) and consistently failed. All I can conclude is that I’m unusually resistant to being dislodged from the familiar. No doubt there are psychological underpinnings for this that can be explored.

@mahgister

If you dont cry listening that you need a heart...It is no more singing...Because she pray really, she dont merely sing...

It would appear I’m a bit of an outlier re: your "test" of whether I posses a heart or not because, paradoxically, I’m not immune to the emotion M. A. conveys but neither do I enjoy the vocal esthetic. The latter tends to render the latter moot, in my case. Make of this what you will. ;o)

Of the samples you posted, the two I did enjoy were The Canticles of Ecstasy and the Schutz piece. I related to these not as "music for listening" but due to their strong emphasis on the vibrational aspect as a means of elevating consciousness, more as mantra or bhajan and in so doing, the question of esthetics/taste receded into the background.

That being said, I don’t want to listen to bhajan all the time!

Still, you have succeeded in opening up the possibility that Classical choral music (without orchestral accompaniment) might be something I could enjoy.

Finally, in the interest of accentuating the positive, here is an example of vocal music I have no difficulty enjoying that is not Jazz or any type of western popular music (the sound on the video is fairly quiet -- you may need to turn it up):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAQYISy-3YQ

 

I am not born with a taste for the Chinese erhu music nor for the Japan koto...

Any music must be LEARNED....

And love sometimes come when we are ready...

This does not m,eans that i will necessarily love Elliot Carter the way simonmoon argue for his greatness... But simonmoon AWAKE what perhaps will be called my ignorance tomorrow...

Thanks to him...

 

I never cease to love my innate taste musical choice : choral music all my life... ( not opera that i learned how to appreciate much , much later )

But i learned to appreciate all other music culture and styles ( not so much commercial music ) i did not love so much at first or not at all some music  BY IGNORANCE and LACK OF ATTENTION... I prefer to  the actual  pop commercial music his old roots in folk songs in England for example... By the late Alfred Deller for example...It is my tastes here... 😊

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0UZ3vvsfBI&list=PLiN-7mukU_RGQqxsWaJg7M94p1aTSJ4Hm

 

 

It is normal to have preferences, it is ignorance to reject all the rest for all our life...

That was my point...

i will try Elliott Carter as suggested by simonmoon... I will go slowly because it is not my "taste"... But i will LEARN something and sometimes miracles happen, and our mind open to new unsuspected possibilities...

This is music experience for me... Not only confort, relaxation, feeling, thinking, but the will to go where no one bodly goes... 😊

I never listen any jazz when young nor pop... I learned a lot with trying to understand jazz in the last 20 years...

 

 

 

I related to these not as "music for listening" but due to their strong emphasis on the vibrational aspect as a means of elevating consciousness, more as mantra or bhajan and in so doing, the question of esthetics/taste receded into the background.

 

I thank you for your post... You are very sensible astute man and you get my point completely here thanks very much ...

Music is not ALWAYS about esthetical tastes...It is way more...

Polyphonic pygmies songs act the way Mantras do and Bajhans do and i love very much all of them ...

Here our soul speak... It is way more than just "music taste"... Sacredness exist too...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnogT0JsJJ0&t=1311s

 

@mahgister I said, “you are speaking with grave authority on matters purely subjective.”   
That’s not “putting a label” on anybody. It’s called, “conversation.”

My bit about people listening to music on phones vs. gear made solely for music reproduction etc. was just a hypothetical scenario I made to prove a point.  
It had nothing to do whatsoever with anything you had previously written.

You somehow took that as being all about you; you took it personally.  
You said I was “putting a label on you.”

It’s called, “conversation.”

This is all very curious behavior. 

You then said I had “limited opinion or understanding.”  
An inexplicable statement, given the content of our exchanges at that point, and, more importantly, uncalled for.

“For sure music is not a mere "subjective" mess randomly distributed in all cultures, that we must treat as superficial subjective tastes in a relativistic manner as you suggested ...Those who think so are ignorant thats all..” 

I beg to differ.  
There are zero people on planet Earth that can “prove” one piece of music is “better” than another.  
My friends and fellow musicians (most of my friends are, like myself, professional musicians) know me to be…how should I put it…quick with an opinion.  
Sometimes the intensity of my opinions may be described as virulent.  
I can be pretty caustic.  
I’m also not an idiot and understand that my fancy-shmancy academic talk doesn’t amount to a hill of beans to someone who likes…gosh, I don’t know…Morgan Wallen, for example.
No matter the infallibility of my fluency in music theory, no matter the depth of my understanding of music history, no matter how deep of an understanding of the “nuts and bolts” of music may be, no matter how good at music I am, no matter how persuasive and academically sound my argument may be for the sheer suckiness of Morgan Wallen, it ultimately amounts to a hill of beans to the person who absolutely loves Morgan Wallen.  
It would result in a statement no more a “fact” than saying, “pizza is better than hamburgers.”

“Commercial music is not yoruba drumming... The content is not the same at all.... The experience is not the same at all”.  
According to whom?  
Again, not a fact.

The one reference to empirical fact you have made, your reference to the science that exists to support the idea that music can be physically therapeutic…that remedial listening may be just as effective via Morgan Wallen or BTS as Bach, depending on the person.  
“Inform yourself before you put a label on me.”  
Classy dude, this mahgister fellow.

 

I have no patience with someone who instead of reading my post and trying to understand my argument put words in my mouth...I am not perfect... 😊

My posts were never about the value of my tastes against the value of your taste or against everybody tastes..

Our tastes are our ENTRY door into music ... They are the starting point of our journey they are not our tombstone... Our limitations (tastes) because tastes are also limitations must not be obstacles and justifications of our own ignorance..

i never claim that a piece of music is inferior to another one , and yoruba drumming is not inferior or superior to 17Th century folk music or to Bach compositions...

IS IT CLEAR FOR YOU ?

I said that the rooting and grounding of music in the body/brain and in Nature, the history of music over millenia transmitted in what we called TRADITIONS delimited what is OBJECTIVE VALUES about music...

Commercial music born after Bernays marketing methods MAY lack these interesting growing roots to an extent that some of our "tastes" about commercial music may be too superficial...

I claimed that commercial marketed music is SOMETIMES inferior to any musical forms in human history , by the definition itself of commercial music : a commercial product IMPOSED by artificial conditioning ...

Then i never said that Pygmies music which is rooted as Bach music in an history and in the playing and acting Body/brain in a socially grounded context are inferior or superior...

A.I. produced music so interesting it will be will not be created by musician inhabiting a body and a cultural history... This ring a bell ?

I am not patient with you because you tried to put your words in my mouth...

 

Then inform yourself... You say that you dont attack me , this is false, you tried to twist my observations to suit your subjective relativism...

For example :

“Commercial music is not yoruba drumming... The content is not the same at all.... The experience is not the same at all”.
According to whom?
Again, not a fact.

 

Sorry to inform you that science , art, and litterature, and societies are about VALUES, and none of this values are equal... Music created to entertain people in an escalator or used in a commercial mall is not the same as a musical jazz event ...Distinguishing is not condemning.... It is thinking...

Again my post is not about naming names of commercial products to discredit them...

This will be not only stupid, because conmmercial product are also created by embodied musicians coming from their own cultures...

As i said the borders separating "commercial consumerist products" from genuine cultural products is not a clear line ... it is a CONCEPT... This concept is necessary to distiguish music coming from a cultural history with his specific language and and from a human body , distinguishing it from at the other extreme : A. I. created commercial music with no ORGANIC roots in the human body nor in the human real living history...

Is it clear enough?

Or do you maintain that all is equal and relative, our tastes are absolute judges, and our understanding must be stop and lay dormant with our uneducated tastes ?

Myself I dont think so because of these OBJECTIVE facts... About body/brain/soul and cultural history of consciousness...

Calling me "unclassy" and someone who spoke "fancy-shmancy academic talk" will not help you...

And Dont put your arguments in my mouth...

Accusing people of being ELITIST is a tactic i dont appreciate... Elite exist by the way and must be recognized... they must not be imposed and in this we can be in agreement at the condition to respect the existence and concept of elite and not reducing it to relativistic nihilism ...

I dont critic people about their tastes, i critic people who stick to their mere tastes as a rule... or WORST i oppose people who for the sake of their own tastes impose a void relativistic perspectives upon us all ...

Music is a cosmos not a children bathroom for the leisure of workers in their after hours ...It is way more than a hobby... Am i clearer ?

And dont come back saying that i despise workers who relax with their tasteful musical choices each evening with "commercial" product...

I relax too...

But i think too between relaxations...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A post I thought originally might be fun has gotten way far away from that end.