Perlisten D212 Subs (2) in the house.

Skinzy, I tend to think subs without a highpass are not worth the time as it never sounds quite right. Wilson audio makes a pretty good sub controller for around $5k that would allow for the integration. Might not be worth it to you though if you are moving away from the subs.
 

jab_kib_sz

i am curious if you have tried a higher crossover point. I found 60hz to be where most of these subs come into their sweet spot. Where they slam without sounding like “subs”. I currently use 2 JL E112 and have pretty munched highpassed them all at 60hz. My speakers (JBL 4367) also go down to the mid 30s and a 40-45hz crossover is fine but nothing special. At 60hz the system has noticeably more dynamic low bass. Once I get to 80hz crossover I feel like my system loses some bass texture. 
 

with your speakers so close to the wall they probably do kick pretty hard down low. When I had my Revel 228be (similar size to the Sopra) I had them 5’ off the wall the a high crossover of 60hz was needed to get a flat response in room. 

@skinzy and @james633  sadly day two not off to a good start. One sub has a "Error 03-00" message that I can't clear and power on/off unplugging etc. hasn't fixed it either. Zero clue? So sent an email to Perlisten (we'll see). If anyone has a idea of encountered this please chime in. Not having good luck with subs, one of my JL E112's lost it's high pass filter switch and I haven't had subs in my systems for about 4-5 months.

As for crossover setting and high pass settings I've listen at great lengths and my CR-1 has a bypass for both speakers and sub so you can on/off to A/B compare and honestly the Sopra is a down firing speaker and yeah they're close to the wall, my room is 9' ceilings, 16' X 45' (WxD) essentially, but has some out croppings that widen out behind me in this picture.

With my Sopras I exhaustedly A/B tested the high pass cut off point of my speakers and I could here truncation in very fast, layered and dynamic music (Andrew Bayer's Opening Act is my best example) around 33-35hz point, however I did have the crossover set on the E112's at 60hz (I just took a look at my other system) so you could very well be right as far as moving that up ward. But I need to dB meter my listening cause on the Perlisten I was doing relatively lower volume listening and I would crank my crossover via the Perlisten app to 160hz and volume 12 and I wasn't overwhelmed by overly boomey and bloated bass with the D12's. Again I only had one day of listening and now the Error code.

@ja_kub_sz I have never encountered an error message on my subs that have now been in service for over a year.  I have talked with Perlisten in the past and they are responsive and helpful.  As to a high pass on a full range floor stander I understand the issues and many approaches. If I had bookshelf speakers that makes a great deal of sense.  However with full range if you high pass at 60hz you're probably eliminating much of your mains low bass woofer function.  

Ja_kub_sz,

Your system looks nice. Sorry to hear about your sub issues. JL’s electronics in their E-subs are pretty much trash. I have had both mine fixed twice so I am effectively on my 5th and 6th sub from them. They fixed them under warranty and then once out of warranty it was $500 for a full rebuild. They changed out everything (including the driver) in my original box. If you ever want to fix the JL there is a repair program.

The internal highpass on the E112 works well but adds a lot of hiss to the system (my speakers are 93db eff) and I need to get an external crossover sooner than later.

I like reading about the sub comparisons so please update the thread when you make a decision. I plan to switch out my JLs. I am leaning toward JTR RS1 or the JBLs SUB18s that match my speakers (pricey and don’t go that low). I have read a direct comparison of the RS1 to the E112 where the RS1 was more textured for music. They are huge and ugly but I am setup as a combo music/theater room so looks matter less. I have also considered the Perlistens but the price gives me a moment of pause, so they need to be really good at their asking price.

Music tastes might play a part in crossover point. I have also played with my crossover point for years and I can mirror your opinion. The 4367 has great textured bass but lacks the power under 40hz for that dynamic thump. At 40hz crossover for me I a near perfect blend but moving up to 60hz I gain a ton of dynamics and slam for modern music. I might lose a touch of texture at 60hz but it could be debated. Above 60hz the sub can be clearly heard with its damped bass. If you listen mostly to “audiophile” music I could see enjoying a 40hz crossover mor than 60hz  

Anyway good discussion, there seems to be very few people who buy and compare different subs for music. I for one think it matters a lot. Sadly high efficiency large driver subs might be a better choice for music than some of these very inefficient subs on the market.

@skinzy

I 100% agree that high pass filtering mains at 60hz would be too excessive and lose some of the dynamic response. I have frequently hit the on/off / bypass button and can audibly hear bass loss in my Sopras at roughly 33 to 35hz. So I completely agree with you. Two side points being that the E112 crossover feature is an all or nothing high/low pass. Meaning you select a frequency response cut off that truncates your mains and that is the fixed Hz low pass for your subwoofers. You cannot alter the two, which is why I got the CR-1. Your choices are either running your mains full range and low pass filtering your subwoofers, or whatever your high pass cutoff is will also be your low pass for your subs. I am of the opinion that my mains should be high passed at roughly 31-33hz, and then again agree with @james633 ​​​​​that my subwoofer low pass will ultimately be somewhere between 60 to 80hz. However the Perlisten have definitely just a different sound and more there setting for volume and low pass filtering are just vastly different then the JL I'm used to. It's like one preamp that you run the volume at 50% max and yet a different brand you'd be deaf at anything higher then 30% volume max. The Perlisten need to be volumed 80-100% (high then most subs I've had) and filterd 60-80hz for floor standers (near 30hz speakers). range)

@james633 I do agree with you completely along the lines of the audible tweeter hiss/hum when using the high pass / low pass cutoff of the E112. It really bothered me, and I’m one of those people that has to have an absolute zero noise floor when my ear is up to the tweeter. I attribute that to my own neuroticism, but even with slight hiss it’s an audible from the seated listening position. Regardless I did use two humEx in order to minimize that and in my current setup with my system I have zero hiss ear and tweeter. I did have dedicated audio grad 20amp outlets installed and since then have all Shunyata cables and Puritan 156 power conditioning. I could only imagine what a higher efficiency speaker would do given the similar issues I had with 91db efficient speakers. I’ve grown spoiled with my Technics SU-R1000 and it’s absolutely black hole of a background as far as noise floor goes. It truly is a special amplifier for that reason alone, let alone others.

As for subwoofers I presently have nine, I say that partly in shame. Covering six different brands. They all do have a unique sound, not like speakers though (bigger sound signatures absolutely).

​I​ find the aesthetics of subwoofers to be ubiquitous which allows me to try so many, because I’m agnostic to how they look for the most part. But speakers that’s a different story. I have to absolutely be wholeheartedly in love with how the speakers looks before I even would consider buying them. Just because they’re such a physical presence in the room. This does kind of hamstring me though on what speakers ill buy... it is what it is.

I would honestly have the Focal Utopia Maestro’s instead of my Sopra No. 3’s (Focal are you listening?), however I really dislike their absence of the glass tops and bottoms. Seriously for how nice the dark finished beveled glass is on the Sopras, and the covering of nearly all exposed hardwear around the speakers. I just can bring myself to buy the Maestro because of how comparably unattractive the base, plain painted tops and exposed hardware is on the Utopia line (which I love). The Utopia line definitely needs to be updated to the standards of the Sopra as far as esthetics goes.

Here are my current subs.

Perlisten D12’s (main system)
JL E112’s (physical media system)
SVS Mico’s (Family TV/Music Room)
SVS SB-300 (Garage Work Shop)
Kef KUBE 12’s (Work Office)

I did try the Kef KC62 and KF92 subs also.