@ja_kub_sz I have never encountered an error message on my subs that have now been in service for over a year. I have talked with Perlisten in the past and they are responsive and helpful. As to a high pass on a full range floor stander I understand the issues and many approaches. If I had bookshelf speakers that makes a great deal of sense. However with full range if you high pass at 60hz you're probably eliminating much of your mains low bass woofer function.
Perlisten D212 Subs (2) in the house.
Lots of interest in subwoofers these days so I decided to take the plunge. My listening room is large 17’W x 32”D x 16’ vaulted ceilings with an open back wall into other rooms. Current speakers Wilson Alexia 1, Classe Delta Mono’s, and VAC Signature 11a SE. Originally was going to buy REL G1 mark 2 but decided to take a chance on the Perlisten as its newer tech and specs looked very good. At first I thought speaker level connection was the way to go and it may be with a tube power amp rig. The argument of passing through the “color” of your amp kinda made sense. But I run very neutral solid state power amps and any power “amp” color still goes though the sub’s power amps which adds its own sound thus that argument made less sense to me and my system. I’m also lucky that my pre has two XLR outs for bi-amping. I am still breaking in these subs so I have decided to not try a detailed matching to my floor standers yet. I will say this. They are currently set at 80htz low pass with no other DSP adjustment. The SQ is great! They have a very articulate and fast bottom end that amazingly “pairs” well with my Wilsons with no tweaking. The soundstage has increased and there is a better foundation to the music. Will provide further assessments after break-in.
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Ja_kub_sz,
Your system looks nice. Sorry to hear about your sub issues. JL’s electronics in their E-subs are pretty much trash. I have had both mine fixed twice so I am effectively on my 5th and 6th sub from them. They fixed them under warranty and then once out of warranty it was $500 for a full rebuild. They changed out everything (including the driver) in my original box. If you ever want to fix the JL there is a repair program.
The internal highpass on the E112 works well but adds a lot of hiss to the system (my speakers are 93db eff) and I need to get an external crossover sooner than later. I like reading about the sub comparisons so please update the thread when you make a decision. I plan to switch out my JLs. I am leaning toward JTR RS1 or the JBLs SUB18s that match my speakers (pricey and don’t go that low). I have read a direct comparison of the RS1 to the E112 where the RS1 was more textured for music. They are huge and ugly but I am setup as a combo music/theater room so looks matter less. I have also considered the Perlistens but the price gives me a moment of pause, so they need to be really good at their asking price. Music tastes might play a part in crossover point. I have also played with my crossover point for years and I can mirror your opinion. The 4367 has great textured bass but lacks the power under 40hz for that dynamic thump. At 40hz crossover for me I a near perfect blend but moving up to 60hz I gain a ton of dynamics and slam for modern music. I might lose a touch of texture at 60hz but it could be debated. Above 60hz the sub can be clearly heard with its damped bass. If you listen mostly to “audiophile” music I could see enjoying a 40hz crossover mor than 60hz Anyway good discussion, there seems to be very few people who buy and compare different subs for music. I for one think it matters a lot. Sadly high efficiency large driver subs might be a better choice for music than some of these very inefficient subs on the market. |
I 100% agree that high pass filtering mains at 60hz would be too excessive and lose some of the dynamic response. I have frequently hit the on/off / bypass button and can audibly hear bass loss in my Sopras at roughly 33 to 35hz. So I completely agree with you. Two side points being that the E112 crossover feature is an all or nothing high/low pass. Meaning you select a frequency response cut off that truncates your mains and that is the fixed Hz low pass for your subwoofers. You cannot alter the two, which is why I got the CR-1. Your choices are either running your mains full range and low pass filtering your subwoofers, or whatever your high pass cutoff is will also be your low pass for your subs. I am of the opinion that my mains should be high passed at roughly 31-33hz, and then again agree with @james633 that my subwoofer low pass will ultimately be somewhere between 60 to 80hz. However the Perlisten have definitely just a different sound and more there setting for volume and low pass filtering are just vastly different then the JL I'm used to. It's like one preamp that you run the volume at 50% max and yet a different brand you'd be deaf at anything higher then 30% volume max. The Perlisten need to be volumed 80-100% (high then most subs I've had) and filterd 60-80hz for floor standers (near 30hz speakers). range) @james633 I do agree with you completely along the lines of the audible tweeter hiss/hum when using the high pass / low pass cutoff of the E112. It really bothered me, and I’m one of those people that has to have an absolute zero noise floor when my ear is up to the tweeter. I attribute that to my own neuroticism, but even with slight hiss it’s an audible from the seated listening position. Regardless I did use two humEx in order to minimize that and in my current setup with my system I have zero hiss ear and tweeter. I did have dedicated audio grad 20amp outlets installed and since then have all Shunyata cables and Puritan 156 power conditioning. I could only imagine what a higher efficiency speaker would do given the similar issues I had with 91db efficient speakers. I’ve grown spoiled with my Technics SU-R1000 and it’s absolutely black hole of a background as far as noise floor goes. It truly is a special amplifier for that reason alone, let alone others. As for subwoofers I presently have nine, I say that partly in shame. Covering six different brands. They all do have a unique sound, not like speakers though (bigger sound signatures absolutely). I find the aesthetics of subwoofers to be ubiquitous which allows me to try so many, because I’m agnostic to how they look for the most part. But speakers that’s a different story. I have to absolutely be wholeheartedly in love with how the speakers looks before I even would consider buying them. Just because they’re such a physical presence in the room. This does kind of hamstring me though on what speakers ill buy... it is what it is. I would honestly have the Focal Utopia Maestro’s instead of my Sopra No. 3’s (Focal are you listening?), however I really dislike their absence of the glass tops and bottoms. Seriously for how nice the dark finished beveled glass is on the Sopras, and the covering of nearly all exposed hardwear around the speakers. I just can bring myself to buy the Maestro because of how comparably unattractive the base, plain painted tops and exposed hardware is on the Utopia line (which I love). The Utopia line definitely needs to be updated to the standards of the Sopra as far as esthetics goes. Here are my current subs. Perlisten D12’s (main system) I did try the Kef KC62 and KF92 subs also. |
Ja_kub_sz
thanks for the feed back. We are more or less on the exact same page. The Sopra does looks awesome and sounds good too. The JBL 4367 is my ugliest speaker ever lol… but I think they will be keepers. Good to know the CR-1 is silent, I have read the manual and I am familiar with how it works. I will probably go that roughy in the spring when I switch out to a new subwoofer system. I have looked at digital systems but kind of like the old school knobs of the CR-1. I tire of diving into a computer everything I want to change something. The E112 hiss was not to bad on some of my old speakers but is crazy loud on the horns. Most people would hate it, I have learned to ignore it for now. the only other thing I do I don’t hear much about on here regarding subs, is I move my main speakers depending on the crossover frequency I choose. I find the crossover point and slop effects the room gain a good bit. Roughly placing the speakers at 1/4th the distance of the frequent wave length of the crossover seems to aid in the blending. Not sure that is easy to follow in writing but simple enough in practice with a frequent length chart and a measurement mic. The phase distance relationship is also at play. Subs are a pain but worth the effort to me. Anyway as you play with the Perlistens more let us know what you think of them. |
@james633 Don't knock the JBL's (kidding) I have the L100 75's for my physical media system paired with the E112's. I will never let those speakers go. Also have 4309's for our family room and love them also. Huge JBL fan, honestly my speaker crushes have been with JBL and Focal, but other always peaking my interests from time to time.
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