2. amps-preamps
  3. 187886-136680

Eliminated my preamp with amazing results

I pulled my preamp out completely. The result's were not subtle. 

For those who stream music only... I was going from my laptop... to my DAC...to my preamp...to my amp. My preamps ONLY function was volume control. Source control not needed.

I started using Audirvana recently which comes with it's own high quality 64 bit volume control that was far better than the potentiometer in my preamp. It dawned on me that I could control volume using Audirvana and plug my DAC directly into the amp and bypass the preamp altogether. (Roon and Jriver also have excellent volume controllers) Note: Audirvana has an app download on a tablet/phone so it acts like a remote control. I'm loving it!

This not only eliminated the preamps volume control but it took out ALL the electronics associated in a preamp including some cables. A FAR more direct route. However, you must use caution and make sure the volume is controlled properly in the software since the amp will be fed wide open volume.

Having experimented with 'passive' preamps in the past (McCormack TLC-1) I thought the sound would possibly lose dynamics and bass response would suffer. WRONG!

The results were...Shocking!! Immediately the extended depth of the image was noticeably deeper. Background darker. The highs are the best I've ever heard. Pristine. The bass was dynamic, tight and most of all 'textured' in a way I never heard before. As I stated earlier the results are NOT subtle! 

This is an experiment that took a few minutes to set up and yielded the best performance improvement of ANY other tweak I've ever tried. Not anything like using a passive preamp.

Equipment used...  Peachtree DAC-itx. 

                               Preamps...McCormack TLC-1 and Melos tube preamp.

                               Amp is McCormack DNA 0.5

Understand that different components will have different interactions with each other. Your results may vary. However, IF you don't like it, it takes just a few minutes to put the preamp back in the system. Nothing to lose and lot's to gain. After hearing this, I will NEVER go back to using a preamp. 

Good luck!

 

 

gdaddy1
ghdprentice
6,969 posts
 

@geworthomd 

 

Hmm, that is a real hard question… since it is based on two really big generalizations. The overall tonal balance of solid state and tube equipment hugely vary and overlap. The two have been moving towards neutral from opposite sides for a long time.

 

Most people add a tube preamp first as it may be more subtle but sets you up for a tube amp. Interesting I don’t know of many people that do tube amps first. So, I have to recommend a very high quality tube preamp first. 
 

A good tube amp will change the sound more. Generally (!) it will give you more natural and musical sound… but more natural means the bass will be more nuanced and real sounding with less artificial slam. Many folks like the “high end” really detailed, sparkily, sound with huge slam, as opposed to really musical / natural.
 

So, preamp first… like what is happening… then amp. But you must carefully research sound qualities of each. I like Audio Research and Conrad Johnson the most.

atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,807 posts
 

If the DAC has an amplified signal, which I agree it does, why do I need to add a second line gain in the preamp?

@gdaddy1 Obviously you don't :)

Many DACs don't do as well as yours appears to. The reason I will always have a preamp is because I don't want my interconnect cables between the preamp and amp from coloring the sound. I've found in many cases this coloration can be more than the line stage of the preamp! If the DAC is unable to control the cables, then it makes sense to have a preamp that can.

Most balanced line 'high end audio' products don't support the balanced line standard, so I expect there will be a plentiful market for preamps as a result. 

markalarsen's avatar
markalarsen
651 posts
 

@gdaddy1 

I have no financial interest causing any bias.  We have exactly opposite experiences in different systems. Adding a preamp was the best improvement I have experienced.  

lanx0003
831 posts
 

The closest reference I could find to Paul's narrative on this subject is a post he made six years ago. Essentially, his comments align with what has been underscored below, in contrast to what you have cited. Could you please provide the source?

1:35 ... after being shown that when a preamp is of a certain quality level, it definitely sounds better to have that preamp in a system than a straight DAC ...

3:27 ... so okay if you have a preamp of a certain quality then you can have much better realistic musical sound and Arnie Nudell was the first person that really showed that to me ...

 

@gdaddy1 Paul summarized very clealy..." if you're not able to afford something as good as a BHK preamp($7000)DO NOT put a lesser preamp between the DAC and the amp. Go direct DAC to AMP" "it will sound BETTER".

gdaddy1 OP
130 posts
 

@lanx0003 

The closest reference I could find to Paul's narrative on this subject is a post he made six years ago. Essentially, his comments align with what has been underscored below, in contrast to what you have cited. Could you please provide the source?

Here you go. This video is from from 4 years ago. I did cite that Paul said the preamp should be of a certain quality level. Specifically BHK series quality. But don't use a lesser quality or "you won't be happy"

 

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