What qualities stand out in really good solid state preamps?
Recently I posted on the Herron HL-1, asking people what they thought, how it compared, etc. It's been sold and that's ok. The search continues.
But it raises a question I'd like to ask folks:
What attributes do you look for in a good solid state preamp?
Some qualities — quietness, durability, seem pretty obvious.
But what other criteria do you use to differentiate between solid state preamps?
How can they differ and what matters to you?
Please let me know!
P.S. As I've looked around, I've begun to learn more about some of the legendary preamps — made by companies such as Threshold, Ayre, Bryston, Pass, Apt-Holman, and others. It's good to have these names as references, but it would be even more useful if I knew what these brands conveyed, sonically. I've played with the idea of getting a newer Schiit preamp and then I wonder -- what if there's a "classic" preamp out there, used? What would it deliver that was worth searching for?
I always respected Bryston but just never had a good reason to own any of their stuff. I looked hard at the 28B3 amps for a short time but moved in a different direction. The thing I always wanted to hear was their speakers, which I suspect may be underrated, but that is just a guess. Well made gear and a solid company by all accounts. |
@decooney “For a component that is "supposed to be neutral", "adding nothing", looking at history of threads and posts over the past 15-20 years…” You bring up some good empirical evidence that neutral is not what most people are looking for… although they say they are. @audiophile1 “I’m trying to refrain from using a term “neutral”. I don’t know if my streamer, DAC, interconnects, cables and components downstream from the source are neutral. There’s just no way for me to possibly know that unless I can A/B what I am hearing at home with what it sounds like in the studio mixed…” Good point, but. There is a way to determine neutral. And it is by becoming intimately familiar with acoustic music in multiple venues. I started my quest a couple decades ago when frustrated that improving one genera would make others sound worse. Over ten years with season tickets to the symphony (7th row center) and dozens of acoustical jazz and individual instrument concerts I was quite startled to realize what real music and venues sound like. While there are some characteristics of rock concerts that translates to a system most do not. When I listen to most systems now they do not sound neutral at all. They are often overly detailed… high lighted details that while interesting makes the venue, miking, mixing, or certain instruments stand out. When cymbals sound like solo instruments, or a triangle grabs your attention then that is not neutral. Bass in natural environments is very nuanced… not slam. My earlier concerns about slam is that the fast slap of bass is not real… in the real world symphonies or rock concerts it is a slower wave with nuanced details. Solid state amps tend to be really good at exceptionally fast rise times and over slap. Now I have realized that even really powerful ones tend to run out of power and therefore do not follow through with the detail.. the articulation of the different frequencies and nuances as the bass arrives. This is something tube amps do well, they reproduce the overall bass experience and nuance well, not pardon the phrase “shooting their load of electrons” on the first wave. Or, at least this is my current theory. Ok, I could go on and on. But I think neutral is actually the objective of few companies and customers. It is what sounds better to them, which is often hearing things they have not heard before or accentuated instruments or frequencies. But there are companies and folks that are out to reproduce music as it occurs in the real world.
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@ghdprentice correct! If you look at my post listing the qualities I look for in a preamp, you will see that we’re on the same page. Your last paragraph pretty much echos what I stated and sums it up. |
Ok, now we have a targeting lock! Thank you -- this is up to the top of my list. Thank you! "the reason some folks report improvement with a separate preamp is their DAC preamp or power amp are not compatible" That invalidates their comments, unfortunately!
That sets a benchmark for those sorts of concerts; but does it do for mixed, PA-driven live music, EDM, etc. what it does for acoustic music concerts? That said, I've been to many acoustic concerts where the location I was sitting or the hall itself made the mix of sound pretty bad. I have sat there thinking, "I wish this was playing on my rig." |
I think the problem is with using the term “neutral” as if it’s a fixed and definitive thing when in reality it’s a moving target based on each individual listener. Unless you’ve made a recording yourself, let’s face it, there’s no way for any of us to define what neutral truly is. In that way it’s kind of a waste of time and a fool’s errand to even talk about neutrality because it’s like trying to catch a greased chicken. What I think sounds neutral might sound colored to you and vice versa, and neither of us would be wrong in the context of our own hearing and tastes. And the basic fact is that neither of us knows what the actual performance sounded like or what the final mixed version should sound like because we’re not the recording engineer. Personally, I’d rather focus on what sounds “natural” — natural meaning nothing sticks out and everything comes together and sounds balanced and effortless like real music and, most importantly, just sounds “right.” THAT, to me, is the best “neutral” we can achieve, and everyone needs to define that inherently indefinable neutrality for themselves. I think this is a big part of the art — and wonderful, awful struggle— of ultimately putting together a great-sounding system. But that’s just me. |
