What qualities stand out in really good solid state preamps?

@ghdprentice correct! If you look at my post listing the qualities I look for in a preamp, you will see that we’re on the same page. Your last paragraph pretty much echos what I stated and sums it up. 

@sameyers1 

"Pass Labs XP-12…is just slightly on the warmer side of neutral, the Pass Labs house sound, and it images better than my Ayre." 

Ok, now we have a targeting lock! Thank you -- this is up to the top of my list. Thank you!

@skinzy 

"the reason some folks report improvement with a separate preamp is their DAC preamp or power amp are not compatible"

That invalidates their comments, unfortunately! 

@ghdprentice 

"There is a way to determine neutral. And it is by becoming intimately familiar with acoustic music in multiple venues."

That sets a benchmark for those sorts of concerts; but does it do for mixed, PA-driven live music, EDM, etc. what it does for acoustic music concerts?

That said, I've been to many acoustic concerts where the location I was sitting or the hall itself made the mix of sound pretty bad. I have sat there thinking, "I wish this was playing on my rig."

I think the problem is with using the term “neutral” as if it’s a fixed and definitive thing when in reality it’s a moving target based on each individual listener. Unless you’ve made a recording yourself, let’s face it, there’s no way for any of us to define what neutral truly is. In that way it’s kind of a waste of time and a fool’s errand to even talk about neutrality because it’s like trying to catch a greased chicken. What I think sounds neutral might sound colored to you and vice versa, and neither of us would be wrong in the context of our own hearing and tastes. And the basic fact is that neither of us knows what the actual performance sounded like or what the final mixed version should sound like because we’re not the recording engineer. Personally, I’d rather focus on what sounds “natural” — natural meaning nothing sticks out and everything comes together and sounds balanced and effortless like real music and, most importantly, just sounds “right.” THAT, to me, is the best “neutral” we can achieve, and everyone needs to define that inherently indefinable neutrality for themselves. I think this is a big part of the art — and wonderful, awful struggle— of ultimately putting together a great-sounding system. But that’s just me.

"Neutral" as compared to what?

Who set the industry standard baseline reference as to what neutral really is. 

This is the funnest and funniest part of the whole (hole) discussion. 🤣 

@decooney @soix 👍