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ribbons vs domes and sibilance

I came upon a thread from the DiyAudio site titled "Can you have sparkling treble but without sibilance?" from 2011. The discussion is very technical and as such, completely over my head but one participant asserted that ribbons are far less prone to sibilance than domes. 

Here's an excerpt for the technically minded: :

... the middle of the dome basically flops about doing it's own thing at high frequencies as it's only very loosely coupled to the edge because of it's own less than infinite stiffness. Thus any distortion or resonances that occur due to the middle of the dome bending and moving in non-piston ways are not reflected back to the amplifier via back EMF... when the ribbon is only 8mm wide compared to a 25mm dome, there is far less narrowing of dispersion with increasing frequency than a dome. The directivity control is achieved with a wave-guide instead. This is why a wave-guide loaded ribbon can achieve an almost constant 90 degree horizontal dispersion from 2Khz right up to 20Khz - the ribbon element itself is far less directional horizontally at high frequencies than a dome, with the wave-guide then adding in a constant directivity control.

I'm wondering whether any forum members have compared speakers with domes and ribbons in regard to sibilance and arrived at any conclusions. 

stuartk
roxy54's avatar
roxy54
7,699 posts
 

Interesting subject. I have had aluminum domes that were good (Elac and Celestion) and great fabric domes by Scanspeak in several speakers, and I have to agree with a previous poster that sometimes the sibilance that is blamed on the tweeter is actually the tweeter revealing a peaky microphone used during the recording.

That said, I think that implementation is the key, and there have been advances of course. My current speakers use the Scanspeak beryllium tweeter, and I have to say that it is the best I have owned. No exaggeration of the treble, just pure and clear with great dynamics.

stuartk OP
2,383 posts
 

@tonywinga 

Can you say more about the dac factor?  For example, which dacs were involved?

I ask because I'm currently using the internal AKM dac in my Hegel H390. AKM dacs are not, so far as I've read, usually regarded as peaky. I did sell my Aqua La Voce because it was fatiguing, but this did not reduce sibilance. 

@roxy54 

Interesting. There seems to be much divergence of opinion re: beryllium tweeters. 

roxy54's avatar
roxy54
7,699 posts
 

@stuartk 

Yes, there is disagreement. I heard a speaker a few years ago with a beryllium tweeter, and even though the treble was very clean and dynamic, it was a bit to prominent for my taste. Then last summer I bought a used set of speakers with the scanspeak beryllium tweeter and it was balanced correctly with the rest of the spectrum, and it ir very good.

knotscott
814 posts
 

A driver’s inherent traits are only one aspect of it’s end performance. As mentioned by at least of couple of folks, how something is implemented is critically important. So everything "depends".

There are pros and cons with every single choice. Speaker designers are inevitably faced with "pick your poison" options (sometimes multiple times), then have to figure out the best methods of dealing with that choice.

IMHO, sibilance and over brightness are far too common, and it’s one of the most annoying aspects of many systems. Many things can cause sibilance. From the range that a given tweeter is used, how it’s crossed over, where it’s crossed over, the parts it’s crossover with, it’s output level, frequency response, wires, connectors, baffle reflections, etc. Many times tweeters are simply too bright because of too much output...sometimes by choice so a speaker stands out in the show room, and sometimes because the designer perceives it as more detail. Other times, it’s those subtle nuances that are so difficult to measure or prove in an A/B test, or a more complex combination of things.  True vividly clear treble requires a lot things going right upstream from the tweeter...many simply settle for treble emphasis and mistake it for clarity.

 

 

stuartk OP
2,383 posts
 

@knotscott 

IMHO, sibilance and over brightness are far too common, and it’s one of the most annoying aspects of many systems.

...and far too often I've read or watched a review of gear that sounded promising only to be disappointed at the end by the disclosure that the product is "somewhat forward". This seems to be a very common refrain, these days. Do most people simply prefer overtly bright sound? 

 

 

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