2. music
  3. 192541-134895

… "And the government shall be upon his shoulders"

As I was getting up this morning, the local classical station was playing Handel's Messiah and that familiar phrase above is oft repeated, as I am sure you are well aware. It has always struck me as quite strange. I am hoping some of our musicological  members can help me understand the meaning and intent of Handel giving that phrase such a prominent place in the work. Certainly, it seems to run counter to Christ's own teaching that we should "render under Caesar, the things that are Caesar's, and to God, the things that are God's".

I am aware that our modern American notion of separation of church and state was not the case in the Europe of Handel's time. Also that the medieval church had maneuvered itself into the rather convenient arrangement with earthly Kings that their right to rule proceeded from God. Which was known as the divine right of kings. This fortuitous arrangement put the church officials in the position of validating earthly power as the manifestation of God's will. But all of that still doesn't quite square with the mantra, "and the government shall be upon his shoulders".

From everything I have ever learned Christ did not give a fig for earthly power. Is this as big a contradiction as it appears? Is Handel's Messiah a propaganda piece?

Ag insider logo xs@2xbruce19
rodac
5 posts
 

Hi All,

 The politics of Handel’s time discussed are interesting but none really answered the OP’s question set forth.  The term in the prophesy “And the government shall be upon his shoulder” to me meant that both the Romans and the Jewish leadership of that time would actively oppose him at every opportunity and eventually be responsible for his death.  If you follow the Bible you’ll find that this was the ultimate goal of God.  Jesus was offered up as an atonement for man’s sins.  This provided a path for man’s salvation to all that believed in him.  
This is a great work that I believe was written through the inspiration of the Holy Sprit.  Handel may not have been a religious man but this wouldn’t have been the first time that God used people to attain his objective whether they were believers or not.  If you are familiar with the Bible you will find that God has used such people to attain his objectives more than once.  

erik_squires
16,268 posts
 

If you follow the Bible you’ll find that this was the ultimate goal of God. Jesus was offered up as an atonement for man’s sins.

Whether that is true or not for the faith in the text of the libretto this does not seem to be the intended interpretation:

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.

Most certainly words of praise and power as opposed to worldly strife with an oppressive regime, or the foreshadowing of a human sacrifice.

jpwarren58
682 posts
 

Isaiah is not a book of prophecy. Written by two different authors at different times both exhorting their present day Israel to do better. Data over Dogma youtube videos do a great job outlining the current academic consensus

 Now if you hold the Bible to be inerrant and completely inspired that is fine for you to believe whatever. Sort of like arguing against another person's ears.

As for Handel underrated and magnificent composer.

Post removed 
asvjerry's avatar
asvjerry
4,724 posts
 

I could comment about the pending I'M POTUS, but won’t beyond <That....

I also could stir a pot ’bout christianity with some views on the afterlife that would likely disappoint....

Question:

Do you dream during anesthesia? Me? Never....my point.

Life IS the dream.
It’s where you’ve come from prior to the ’waking’ a more pertinent way of looking at the ’the nap’ seem remarkably similar....

....enough time to forget All of This. *LOL* ;)

Weirdy Gnu Year....

More to discover