Your journey with lower-watt tube amps -- Can a kit be good enough?

@hilde45 

Getting to this party late, but my experience over the last year is exactly what you are considering doing.

I bought an Elekit 300B amp already built (the 8600S with Lundahl transformers and Mundorf Supreme coupling capacitors) to try on a lark. At that point I had Wilson Sabrina speakers driven by a Modwright KWA 150SE amp (150 watts into 8 ohms). Tried the Elekit amp with the Sabrinas, knowing this was a mismatch, and was blown away by the sound. 

Thus the quest continued. At this point I now have two SET systems. One with Spatial Audio X3 speakers (97 dB sensitivity) driven by an Aric Audio 300B SET amp, and one with Charney Audio Maestro speakers with Voxativ AC-2.6 full range drivers (98 dB sensitivity) driven by an Air Tight 300B SET amp. 

It is important to note, as Ralph alluded to above, that both systems have auxiliary subwoofers. The Spatial X5's have 12" bass drivers with separate on-board Class D amplification, and the Charney Maestros are augmented with two SVS subwoofers crossed over at 100 dB.

But, both systems sound better than any of the many other systems I have put together. Not just in my opinion, but in the opinion of friends who listened to both the current SET systems and my previous higher powered systems. And, no disrespect to Ralph, both systems measure better in my rooms than my previous systems, based on measurements using REW software.

Lastly, although I started with a kit amplifier (which I still have), to my ears both the Aric Audio and Air Tight amplifiers are superior. Of course, the Aric and Air Tight amps were more than twice the price even when purchased used.

So, my advice is go forward! For two reasons: as stated above, because that is what this hobby is all about, but also because you may end up with the best sounding system you have yet to find.

Good luck!

GAR

Hilde45:

My long term experience is with an Audion Silver Night DH/SET 300B amp and my currently owned/early DH/SET 2A3 Bottlehead kits.

I’ve also tried (@ home) an early "single ended" Decware amp (EL84/6922 I think), an Audion "single ended" EL34 based amp and a few vintage "single ended" EL84 based amps (Magnavox and one "stamped" RCA that may have been of Japanese manufacture).

If you want to try single ended (not DH/SET) cheap look into the current model SE Coincident EL34 based integrated amp.

Good reviews, less expensive tubes (even for really good ones) and there’s a used one for sale a 30 minute drive from Denver (you know the place).

I’m not familiar with contemporary Bottlehead (my amps are 20+ years old), but the reviews are good.

I’ve looked into Elekit and would go with the better Lundahl (sp?) OT upgrade, but I’m not certain if they have PT’s for 115AC as most listed are for 100 (the vendor in Canada could answer this).

Anyway, try it is my rec as I’ve enjoyed my meager DH/SET setup (no highs/tweeters - no lows/woofers) for the past 20+ years.

PS:

On the really cheap (just single ended/not DH/SET) Musical Paradise has a little integrated SE amp for $500, or so.

I would buy it from the local vendor (think he’s in Canada).

DeKay

Atmasphere your viewpoint in this discussion repetitively shuts down people learning and exploring. The whole discussion about bass, about distortion, and many of the other salient points you’ve raised, while one hand accurate, are on the other hand wholly irrelevant.

@yaluaka  The way you write suggests to me that we have very similar goals. When I put on an LP I don't want to be thinking about the system. I want it out of the way so I get the full experience of the music and nothing else.

I'm really trying to save people from flushing perfectly good dollars down the loo rather than trying to shut down discussion. You'll note I suggested some simple solutions for getting the most out of any SET on this thread. I can outline them again if you like.

How relevant my comments are depends on what you play for music. I have recordings I recorded, so having been there when that happened, I know how they are supposed to sound. I enjoy electronic music and some of that has really deep bass. So its only irrelevant if you limit the kinds of music to which you listen. If you only play chamber music or light jazz or folk you'll probably be fine. But if you have an original LP pressing of Hendrix's Electric Ladyland, King Crimson's In the Wake of Posiden, ELP's first LP and so on you really won't get to experience what those records are all about with an SET because of the bass issue (if nothing else). If you can find a copy of RCA's Soria series recording of Verdi's Requiem its the same thing. They really didn't compress that LP and it can bring any SET system to its knees in very short order (side one, track 2 if interested).

BTW its not just SETs that have problems making bass properly. A lot of early solid state stuff does too. That issue with solid state went into the early 1970s until silicon transistors got good enough that complementary symmetry was finally possible. A lot of those amps are nowhere near as musical as a lot of SETs not as if that's any revelation...

Maybe there’s not as much bass etc, but for me the way to listen to music, is to listen to music not equipment. Listen, don’t analyze. I find tube triodes to give me immense musical pleasure despite their drawbacks.

FWIW I've been building triode power amplifiers for over 47 years. Its not triodes that have the drawbacks I described; triodes can go right down to DC if you want. Its the output transformers in SETs that have the limitations. David Berning is the only one I know of whoever figured a way around that and unsurprisingly his amps get very good comments. 

@decooney Thanks for commenting. I’m not giving up my Pass XA25 or my QS Mono 60’s so I won’t be out on a limb with this next amp. I also know that these speakers have worked fine with SET amps in a room around my size, so it’s a question of finding the right amp for these speakers in my space with my other gear.

Sure. I do wonder if it could also be a functional and costlier challenge of finding a quality kit SET amp that's an improvement over what you already own right now - if overall performance is a consideration.  

@hilde45 I will keep it simple, it should always be about the circuit design. Whether the circuit is executed on a board or hand wired should not matter. What matters is starting with a well thought out circuit design. It's helpful if the design is reliable and if needed, easily serviceable as well. So circuit layout and parts selection are important intangibles as well.